Your involvement with fusing rhythm, roots and electronics stretches back many years, from the East Village’s Organic Grooves and Turntables on the Hudson to many parties and albums and beyond. How did you first become involved with this influential music scene in New York?
I was here (in New York) mainly because i played guitar with a band called The indians signed to Polydor back in 89 . The indians had a very short life mostly because in the early 90s many on the major labels went through a lot of infrastructure issues and many people lost their jobs including the chairman
themselves which led to the dropping of many bands including us….The indians had a minute or two of “glory” though because our tunes were used for the soundtracks of the movies Kalifornia and Reality bites .
After we got dropped we soon split and I found myself pretty much broke and kind of lost not knowing what to do next. I then took a job in a place called Bar 16 making espressos and it was then that i met Sasha Crnobrnja ( yes the name is spelled right…hehehe ) and we started talking about music which led to the great late 70s and early 80s of the Italian club scene and names like the clubs Baia degli angeli , Cosmic , Le cigalle , Typhoon started to come up…
Obviously DJ names were next … Baldelli, Loda , TBC , Mozart etc . so… we started thinking ” hey! that stuff would be just great in New York these days uh?”
Next thing you know we spoke to Bar 16 owner and asked if we could do a weekly party involving DJ and live musicians promoting what we called Cosmic Music. Bar 16 happened to have a basement (only used for storage space ) which was actually an old Persian Hooka smoking lounge ( great uh? ).
we cleaned it up and started a party in it called : Organic Grooves .
The rest is pretty much history as far as the underground music scene in NY is about…..we lasted over a decade and became a bit of a cult for many poeople.
Organic grooves kind of died out ( actually WE let it die … ) after 9-11 . many things were changing in NY around that time and we felt it all too well, mostly because most people in the collective were not from the US and we all had some kind of trouble with immigration and the fact that we had an interest with the East ( middle east in my case…. ) made us like some kind of terrorist supporters …you remember Bush’s words ? You are either with us or against us !
Thats what we had to deal with back then….. sad uh? Anyway I was happy to have left a mark in the NY scene and 5 organic Grooves albums by then!
It was at that point that the “natives” ( Nickodemus ) took over and started Turntables on the Hudson .
TOTH was similar to Organic Grooves but a bit more tailored for the US to my opinion.
Nickodemus taste for the eclectic ( and mastering of the turntables ) kept it fresh ( Mariano was more of a straight ahead party ” monster” ..hehehe ).
last but not least people like Nappy G and me , provided that live feel that people liked and missed so much from the defunkt Organic Grooves.
Having said that , I wanna give Giant Steps their credit too for doing that DJ/live musician thing even though Giant Steps was more of a jazz funk thing and we had a lot more styles involved in the mix.
What are some of the projects you’ve been involved in over the years that are most important to you?
Frankly every project is important to me….I must say that I work alone most of the time so, the only collaboration I’ve been involved with is Nickodemus .
Together we remixed some pretty big names like Billy Holiday , Natasha Atlas , Omar Faruk and a bunch of others I can’t even remember…
Actually more recently Nick and I had the honor of making a tune with Afrika bambaataa which ended up on Nick new album Moon people ( I still have to to another remix of that tune though…hehehe ) .
I have also kept close contacts with Sasha ( now Inflagranti ) and we put together an album called OBLIO which pays homage yet again to the Cosmic era we miss and respect so much.
Sasha own label Kodek will be releasing that sometimes in the near future.
With this long history in music, what has been your vision or trajectory over these years?
This could take me forever to answer so I’ll keep it relatively short…
Mainly, my object was to learn how to play more instruments ( i play 5 now ) and to be self sufficient as much as i could.
That’s why i pretty much do everything in my tunes ,including the mastering and sometimes even the artwork.
As I’ve shown in the last couple of albums, i decided to focus almost exclusively on Middle Eastern music and specially on the OUD . The arabic lute which i love in ways that i can’t even describe…I believe that the eastern culture has been grossly misunderstood and I am there to make things straight if i can with music …hehehe. Reggae and specially Dub is ALWAYS in the agenda for me too, because i like it and it has the spiritual element that marries so well with the middle eastern sounds.
My goal as a musician has and always will be to make music with hope and beauty which we need so much these days to get over all the problems which this World seem to be so full of.
You have a longstanding relationship with DJ Nickodemus, first with Turntables on the Hudson and second being on the Wonderwheel Label. How has that friendship enabled your musical journey?
Nick probably knows me better than i know myself by now… =)
I know he is a big fan of mine and he totally supports EVERYTING i do…. I have always been happy to donate my music to his label
Wonderwheel has definitely helped me a lot to reach more and more people. I just wish it will become bigger soon though because it is still relatively underground and it deserves better….i deserve better too…hehehe
Is what you are doing reflective or globalism or the polyglot culture of New York City?
I guess it is….I am so used to live in multicultural places , i guess i don’t even notice it anymore…hehehe
How did your upbringing influence your music?
Actually my father used to wake me up when i was 8 in the middle of the night with a bunch of friends and made me play guitar for them while my mum was cooking and they were singing ( that at about 5 am ! )
Then my mum would join in and sing beautifully , harmonizing with my fathers voice….( after serving that food of course =).
this is just an example of what music was to my parents ( way to go Gypsies uh? ).
I don’t think i need to add anything to this ….I’m just a “product” of that lifestyle i guess.
Your second solo album, “Arabadub” has a very catchy and suggestive title. So first, the obvious question: why dub? And why “Arabadub”?
My second solo album?? this is probably my 6th solo album …let me see…
I did -Jesterized- as Zeb in 96 then always as Zeb i did -The end of the beginnings- in 2000 , then came -An eye on the World- as The spy from Cairo in 2002 , after that was -Stop the earth i want to get off- (spy from cairo 2007) then -Secretly famous- ( spy from cairo 2009 ).
Arabadub ( my 6th album ) simply means Arabic Dub, I think that the music pretty much explains it .
You programmed and performed everything on “Arabadub”, what was your desire to create on this album?
I love arabic music and love dub !
I’ve wanted to do a record like this for a long time but i wanted to master all the instruments i play on it so i took my time….
I really wanted it to sound EXACTLY like i envisioned it….actually i din’t play ALL the instruments on it though ( i wish…. sigh! ).
The orchestra parts were offered by Sultan strings ( turkey ) and the few Nay parts ( the bamboo flute ) played by a Tunisian friend of mine.
Everyting else i played myself : The oud , The saz, The cifltelly, most of the darbouka ( some are samples..oops! ) and I programmed ALL drums and played the bass and the few synths parts.
I am very happy of the outcome and it seems that people who hear this record get it instantly .
It is exactly what the title says and i believe i did it respectfully to both worlds ; the Jamaican and the Middle Eastern.
There are no samples on the album, was this a challenge to avoid? Why no samples?
actually there are a few samples but VERY few to even mention.
I’ve been working with samples for so damn long ….i just had enough…hehehe
this is why i keep, learning new instruments …after all..I am a musician uh?
How did you go about arranging the music? What came first and was there a lot of improvisation before laying down a track?
First of all i had to come out with a melodic idea which was obviously the arabic music so i’d look for traditional and classic arab tunes and “make them mine” by rearranging them with the Oud ( which i wanted to keep prominent in every track ) and the other instrumets like the Saz and Ciftelli.
Then the orchestra parts had to be recorded and dulcis in fundo i laid down the reggae drums and bass line .
When i had a strong foundation of the song I would make spaces for the Oud solos and the dubbed out parts ( let the tape delay do it’s thing…hehehe ).
I just made all of this sound easy but BELIEVE ME it was NOT.
Arabic music notation is very different from western and it is great challenge to mix reggae 4/4 to a typical 1/5 or 1/7 arabic rhythm.
That’s also why i had to play all the stuff live ( samples simply wouldn’t cut it … ).
I also pretty much re/wrote all the tunes in different keys to match the simplicity of the reggae sounds.
All the tunes melodies came from traditional middle eastern music but by the time i was done they were MY tunes you can believe that!
If there’s an overall mood to “Arabadub” it’s pensive and expansive. The beats are very heavy and deep and the accompanying instrumentation of strings and your oud playing create a counterbalance that is wistful. How did you go about balancing the heavy bass with your instrumentation?
It pretty much came normal as i know Dub and heavy bass very well by now…
The Oud is a very deep sounding instrument and it was a time difficult to mix with the dub bass though …also the strings arrangements have a lot of depth
so, i had my challenges here and there but i’m very happy of the outcome and as i answered previously i think i got the right balance .
I think that i honored the Oud pretty well throughout the record which was my intention all together.
Your principle instrument is the oud, a traditional instrument. Yet you have a deep involvement in digital music production as well. This is something you’ve been doing for sometime so what was the inspiration to fuse the two?
There are certain producers that have worked with Arabic music in a dub context, most notably to met Bill Laswell. Where you influenced by his productions or others?
I simply believe that there are NOT enough people doing what i do.
I like and respect Bill Laswell and people like DuoOud or Jeff Stott but we are all different and i believe that there is plenty of room for more producers/musicians with an interest in The OUD.
This instrument has been ignored for a long time and it has a great past!! why not give it a great future??
Where did you learn the oud? Did you study under anyone?
I picked it up by myself by listening to countless hours of Oud Taksims ( improvisations ) from the best players like Farid al Atrache and Ryad Alsunbaty
to more recent players like Naseer Shamma and Simon Shaheen ( His brother Najib actually help me out a lot with picking the right style of playing ! ).
The Oud has always been around in my life for one or another reason… there was one hanging on a wall in my house when i was little but it was unplayable and all beat up so i played guitar in the earlier years … i started to focus exclusively on the Oud 7 years ago and i abandoned the guitar all together to just focus on this amazing and honorable instrument!
Clearly rhythm is a major part of what you do. How do you weave your instrumentation into the beats? What comes first?
I think i explained this before 😉
Do you find yourself having to defend your music to traditionalists or are they understanding of what you are doing?
Interesting question indeed!! Well… Classically trained arabic musician will NEVER go for what i do which is good so i don’t have too much competition…hahaha .
The fact that I’m not really an arab is enough reason to turn off enough people but I also have big admirers from the Middle East JUST BECAUSE i’m not one of them but have so much respect for the Oud and their music.
All in all, whatever people think isn’t gonna make me quit with my explorations in music …..Real musicians from the west and the east understand that!
The best music always came from those who were not afraid to mix things up after all right?
One example was Mohamed Abdel Wahab , a great composer and innovator of arabic music which actually wrote music for none less than the great Um Kalthoum…. nuff said!
What was your exposure to music like growing up? It seems that you must have had a wide exposure to various rhythmic and experimental genres of music.
I grew up in Brixton and Portobello road in London ( in the early 80s ) and was exposed to West indian ,Idian, Arabic music .
The Brits were always keen on mashings things up, so to hear a hip hop beat with a sitar loop was quite common even back than to me.
I think i grew up in the best country as far as experimental music goes…. thats why we had Transglobal Underground , Loop Guru, Talvin Singh etc.
The US are a bit more conservative about music to my opinion but don’t worry …I’m here now…hahaha
Have you always had it in your mind to release solo records and what was the process in getting to that point?
I ALWAYS wanted to do solo records …I know what I want and have little patience explaining to others so I just go ahead and make the music that speaks for itselfs .
On your first solo release “Secretly Famous” you featured vocal tracks yet other than “Thicker Than Hooka Smoke” and “Haboob” there are no vocals on “Arabadub”. Why the change to limited vocals?
I think that vocals can alienate some people ( not everyone speaks arabic … ) so i decided to let the music speak this time.
Thats why i tried to add more depth and cinematic effect to it .
I think there is enough melody in Arabadub to speak loud enough about -hope, love and beauty- the only 3 words i want people to hear in this record….
What does your current live performance consist of? How do you recreate the songs of “Arabadub” live?
Well… the old laptop and midi controller show with live Oud and darbouka ….and when i’m lucky i’m graced by some beautiful belly dancer flying around me like a butterfly……..
Here at Audio Texture, one of our albums of the year, already, is “Passages” from Teleseen on 100% Silk, one of the most inventive, “dance music” albums of 2013, a unique mix of great beats and global sounds submerged in a world of reggae flavours. We were so taken by the music we wanted to find out more. Below is a little interview we conducted with Gabriel Cyr, man behind this project and many more, via email from his intended new home Rio De Janiero.
Audio Texture: So we first heard about you from your Mandrake EP, released on your own Percepts label, back at the start of 2011 which immediately sucked us in with it’s global musical outlook, dub flavors and fresh beats. What made it even more appealing was that it didn’t really sound like anyone else, “By Many Names” in particular was a massive track for us both on the radio show and in our dj sets. It was such a joy to hear you deliver an amazing album with Passages, released last month, as so often early EP promise doesn’t always translate into a good album, let alone a good “dance music” album (a very rare thing) so first of all congratulations on that achievement.
Could you tell us a bit about the album recording process and that two year period in-between the Mandrake EP and the album release. You mention you were living between New York and Brazil (with a view to a permanent move at the time) and we guess also recording the album, sounds like a hectic time.
Teleseen: Well probably the biggest change in that period which affected the pace of the production of the record was that I moved in mid 2011 from an apartment/studio that I had been in for 8 years, and thought I was moving into a new more professional studio space near my new apartment, but that fell through at the last minute and I was left without a work space for about 6 months, working only on headphones or the studios of friends and with no access to my equipment. Then I moved into a space that turned out to be a total disaster, leaks, rats, angry neighbors and million other problems, then I was without a space again for another 6 months. I have been in a reasonable functional space the last 8 months but that situation seems like it may be coming to end as well. Basically in this period I worked on headphones, recorded in other people’s studios both in NYC and Rio and was very transient in my working methods. It took me moving into a space where I could really mix in order to finish the record, which didn’t happen until the end of last summer, after about a year of exile.
One of the things that immediately appealed to us was the live musical element to your work, could you tell us a bit about your musical collaborators on the album and a bit more about your musical background. Are you coming at things as a musically inclined electronic producer or as a musician discovering the joys of electronic production?
Mainly on this record I am working with one guy, Morgan Price from the group Ikekebe Shakedown. He’s been on my last three releases, he plays on Mandrake and one of the tunes on Fear of the Forest. I tried to make broader use of horns on this album. Also on the record are Jay Moherginer and Kevin Thompson, session musicians from NYC, playing trombone and trumpet respectively. Morgan plays, bass clarinet, alto and tenor sax on the record. Most of the keyboards and percussion that isn’t sequenced is me playing. I have a background in jazz and composition and with the last couple of releases have been trying to draw on that more in composing and arranging tunes.
Audio Texture: What does you studio set up look like are you surrounded by boxes, synths and instruments or have you stripped things down using today’s software options and plug ins?
Teleseen: I do have a lot of boxes and synths and instruments as you put it, but I do avail myself of software as well. I like to work with hardware whenever possible. I’ve been mixing a band record that I produced the last few weeks and we’ve been using some great hardware in a nice studio and it has reminded me what a difference it makes.
Audio Texture: You have so many influences in your music but the music of Jamaica seems to be a constant theme and almost a thread that makes it all hang together. Would you like to tell us a bit more about your Jamaican love affair.
Jamaican music has been a presence in my life since a young age, I heard Black Uhuru’s album RED at a young age and it strongly affected me, though I didn’t really know how to process it at the time in relation to all the other music I was absorbing at the time, jazz, fusion, and avant rock, other things I was hearing in the context of my musical education. It wasn’t until I went to college and had my horizons really expanded musically, by living in LA, playing in bunch of bands and finally being in an environment rich in many types of music that I began to understand what was happening in those productions. By the time I left school i was fully obsessed with dancehall and reggae and dub. In NYC it is really the soundtrack to everything, coming out of cars, people’s apartments, clubs, the constant background, much in the way it is in London too.
Audio Texture: We can’t even start to list the various global musical influences in the album, how did you get turned onto these global sounds, was it the New York melting pot or just the product of an inquisitive mind? Tell us how you work with all these influences to make your own unique sound.
Teleseen: I definitely have a highly inquisitive mind, but I have also traveled pretty constantly the last 8 or ten years, both for what used to be my day job, recording location sound for films, and for music, and just out of curiosity. I spent three or four years traveling extensively in the mid east and Africa and absorbed a great deal of music influence in that time which still has a strong presence in the music. The best part of a lot of these travels was not the listening part, but the opportunity to see how other people work and compose and produce and utilize the tools at their disposal. The last few years, having been in Brazil more, that influence has very much crept into my work as well.
Audio Texture: We weren’t aware you were a location sound recordist. That sounds like an interesting job, could you tell us a little bit more about what that entailed and I guess you must have one or two amusing stories regarding that work – prey tell? Does that mean you are now relying on production for others and yourself for your livelihood?
Teleseen: I still do it a little bit but I am in the process of shifting over to working as a producer solely and mixing albums for other people and post production work and so on. After 10 years of working on all types of projects in 20 or 30 different countries I am feeling the need for a change. By far the most interesting stuff I have done is when I have had the opportunity to work on nature programs. I have a few great experiences going to jungles in various places and recording ambiences and sound effects for different projects. Definitely the best results you get are when you set the microphones up somewhere and the recorder somewhere else, so the recording is not disturbed by your presence. If you do that and leave it for many hours you get the best results. I’ve got some wonderful stuff doing that technique in early mornings in jungles and rivers in places like Trinidad, Costa Rica, Tanzania, and Rwanda…
Audio Texture: Do you have plans to take the Teleseen project live, if so what will the group look like?
Teleseen: TI would really love to do that but I haven’t made any moves to just yet, mainly because I have been very itinerant the last year, but it is something I dream of. I think it would consist of me on electronics and keyboards, two sax players and a percussionist. I have been hoping to but together a a Rio version of the band and an NYC version.
Audio Texture: So after living between Brazil and New York for a year you’ve finally decided to make the move to Brazil. Why choose Brazil – is it because of the music, for love or did you just need a change of scene. Do you intend to stay?
Teleseen: There are many factors informing the decision, mainly they are personal, just feeling like it might be time for me to truly live away from my home country and not just be a traveller but a true migrant. But also I feel very captivated by what is going on down here musically and I want to be a part of it. I’m in Rio, but haven’t made the permanent move just yet, that will be happening at the end of the year hopefully, I’m still between the two places at the moment.
Audio Texture: Are you starting to hook up with Brazilian producers and musicians and if so have any new projects that are starting to hatch?
Teleseen: I just produced the record of a Brazilian band called Dorgas, and in talks about a few other projects. I have been blessed to meet amazing people here and I feel like I am at the nexus of a lot of potential here. Here’s a video for a song from the album I produced, it’ll be out next month on Vice Brazil.
Audio Texture: Have you discovered any new musicians or groups since arriving in Brazil that the world ought to know a bit more about?
Teleseen: One of the best things about being here is that I didn’t really know that much about Brazilian music when I came here so it has been like being a teenager again in terms of musical discoveries. As far as new groups there’s Holger, who are an indie band from Sao Paulo who mix a lot of Axé and samba styles in their work. I just finished a remix for them that should be out next week. There’s a long list of other music I’m excited about down here, B Negão, Lucas Santana, Jovens do Cristo, Baiana System, Maga Bo, Do Amor, and on and on….
Audio Texture: Will you miss anything about New York?
Teleseen: The list of things I will miss about New York is surprising short. Mainly they are food related. NYC has the best food options in the world I think. Bagels, trinidadian food, Lebanese food, indian food, good coffee…
Audio Texture: We’re hoping to head over to New York later in the year perhaps you could give us a tip or two in your old neighborhood that a hapless tourist would overlook and perhaps a couple of record spots for a bit of digging. Is it still possible to get a vinyl bargain in New York?
Teleseen: Definitely still possible to find a vinyl bargain in NYC. Probably the real digger’s paradise in NYC is a store in greenpoint, bk, called the Thing, a giant dusty room full of disorganized records where everything is under $5.
Audio Texture: Are you much of a record collector, if so let us in on some of the details of your collection and record buying habits. Will you take your records to Brazil with you?
Teleseen: I’m a huge record collector, but I have had to dial it back in recent years since my collection is about 4000 pieces at the moment, not including CDs and tapes and that’s about as much I can manage not living in a big house. I have not figured out yet what I am gonna do with my records, probably my mother is going to end up with them in her basement, alas. My collection is about a third reggae/dancehall/dub, a lot of african music and jazz, and a lot of rock and folk and country too.
Audio Texture: How do you feel about digital music, is it something you’ve embraced or do you still prefer to physically hold your music?
Teleseen: I have embraced digital music as a consumer, a little bit less so as a producer. There’s still really nothing quite like records, I still really like to make physical objects and wish that art options were better for digital. I really don’t understand why they aren’t, mainly a lack of imagination on the part of apple. Though it seems to me that most of the digital music platforms are made by people who’s focus is business and not music, though they have certainly bungled the business part as well for many of us. More and more the changes in digital music seem to be aimed at killing independent music and not nurturing it. That is certainly what streaming services like Spotify and Rdio are doing.
Audio Texture: One thing we are trying to get to the bottom of with our interviews is how the changing nature of the music industry over the last 15 years has affected the independent music sector. Technology has given todays music consumers the options to increasingly use Youtube, stream, buy digitally or rather worrying freeload on a massive scale. Perhaps you could tell us a bit about your experience of people’s changing methods of getting hold of Teleseen/Percepts music. I know this is a bit personal but if you could throw in a few figures for records sales and income generated to highlight these changes that would be great.
Teleseen: Well, my first record, War, which I released in 2007 is my highest grossing release, and the one that sold by far the most physically. I can’t remember exactly how many but close to 1000. But that was back at the end of the age when people still bought CDs and mp3 didn’t sound as good. (Even so that album was produced to be consumed on CD and didn’t translate very well to mp3, it had a lot of very high and very low frequencies that didn’t translate very well to mp3.) It’s pretty much been downhill since then. There was a time when the label was making some money off of digital sales but that pretty much went away when spotify came around. And even when I released Fear of The Forest, two days after the record release half of the first few searches in google where free download links, the same is unfortunately true for Passages. I’m not really sure why people do that. Is it a compliment?
Audio Texture: Youtube views, Facebook likes and Soundcloud listens are almost like a new currency to the young generation of artists and producers, with some people using bots to increase their hits and then trying to leverage these results into bookings. How do you feel about this strange new world and are you actively embracing the web 2.0 way of life.
Teleseen: I don’t feel good about it at all. I really couldn’t care less about the twitter feeds of most artists I like and this is one of the reasons I don’t really use twitter or update my pages unless it is about something to do with the music I’m producing and releasing or something I feel like I want to recommend. Artists are under immense pressure nowadays to keep up their social media presence and be constantly releasing music that the quality of work has really taken a major dive in the last 4 or 5 years. Rarely do you hear well thought out, well produced long players that are beyond 40 minutes. Not to sound like a cranky old man but people really need to focus more on music and less on the number of followers or plays the new flavor of the month has. I try to be apart from all this business, perhaps to the detriment of my career but… Less tweets more beats….
Audio Texture: So with your Percepts label you decided fairly early on to take business control of your musical creations. Could you tell us a bit more about that decision, was it just to have total control of your work, a distrust of working with labels or just entrepreneurial spirit?
Teleseen: At the time it was a combination of all of those factors, along with impatience.
Audio Texture: So after running your own label for a number of years what made you take the leap to work with 100% Silk on your third, and latest, album?
Teleseen: I’m at the point where I have a lot of finished products and I have been not releasing anything for two years and felt like it was time to try something new.
Audio Texture: With a good income from recorded sales harder to come by a lot of producers use the exposure their productions give them to get live gigs and/or DJ bookings. Is DJing something you do or have considered? What would a Teleseen DJ gig sound like?
Teleseen: I have DJ’d for years, but I haven’t so much DJ’d in connection with the Teleseen project, being that the sound of it is so unique its hard to make a dj set that connects perfectly to my releases. Historically when I have toured I have been doing a live PA set, and a few occassional dj sets on the side. My background as a dj is more in pirate radio than in party rocking, so I try to take a more left field approach, though I certainly have done my fair share of party rocking as well. I had a show on NYC’s free 103point9 pirate radio station for many years, and dj very regularly still.
Here is a promo mix I made for Passages, which is a little more dance music oriented.
Audio Texture: We are well aware of the London pirate radio scene with a couple of the old iconic dance stations Kiss FM and more recently Rinse FM both finally going overground and geting proper licences. The history of Pirate radio though is an ongoing battle, with the pirates, who could be playing everything from Zouk, Techno, Reggae, Hip Hop and Salsa, playing cat and mouse with the radio authorities, hidden attenaes on tower blocks, secret studios, raids and equipment and records getting confiscated. Could you tell us a bit more about the scene in New York and your personal experiences.
Teleseen: The pirate scene in New York has quieted a great deal in the last 7 or 8 years, but it still exists. Mostly its reggae and dancehall here. free103point9 went legal about 7 years ago I think, and now doesn’t even stream online anymore, the same with east village radio, but they still have online programming. What we used to have was the studio in one apartment and move the transmitter every week to a different apartment and connect them by internet streaming. Rumor has it that the big dancehall pirate station here operates out of a van.
Audio Texture: Have you started to develop any new revenue streams since starting out – synch or merchandising for instance?
Teleseen: No. Suggestions welcome!
Audio Texture: What is the reality of being a smaller independent musician these days – is it possible to survive and how do you see the future for yourself as an independent artist?
Teleseen: I will always be around because making music is a very essential, reflexive activity for me, its not something i have a choice about doing, its like breathing. I get horribly depressed if I don’t make music for a while. So I will always figure out a way. The last year or two I have been producing projects for other artists, both bands and individual artists, and its interesting to note how artists live much more in the short term than they used to, and this seems to me to be a by product of the increased rate of consumption we have for media. I notice myself tiring of things quicker, moving on to new subjects quicker, and have been trying to fight it.
An Interview with Zeb “The Spy From Cairo” on his Infectious Arabic groove
Zeb The Spy From Cairo. Photo by Derek Beres.
One of the amazing things about the deeply Jamaican music called Dub is its ability to act as a conduit. From its early days as stripped down versioning of popular Reggae tunes to its indoctrination into late 80 / early 90s UK Soundsystem & Dance Music culture, to its current massive mutation (with the “Step” planted firmly in its behind); Dub has shown itself to be not only a musical art form that stands strongly on its own, but also a vehicle of sorts that can transport and connect disparate musical universes. And it’s at the unique nexus of Dub and Arabic music that the Spy From Cairo sits the most comfortably.
The Spy From Cairo aka Zeb is the kind of musician that fits perfectly in with the downtown NYC music scene – Italian by birth, Gypsy by heritage, and New Yorker by residence, he has been closely associated with the Turntables on the Hudson scene for close to 12 years – producing dozens of albums as Zeb, the Spy From Cairo and the Organic Grooves project, as well as remixing for everyone from Baba Maal to Tosca to Billie Holliday to Novalima, steadily garnering a worldwide collective of fans and followers.
The Spy’s new album, “Arabadub” is perhaps his most realized vision of deep Middle Eastern and Jamaican sounds coalescing into something that sounds right and natural – because it was conceived and produced in just that natural way. There are no samples used on the album, and Zeb has programmed everything, as well as playing traditional Middle Eastern stringed instruments called the Oud, Chifteli and the Saz himself. Check the opener “Alladin Dub”, with its echoed out skanks, pulsing bassline, and majestic strings – and the deepness that is “Taksim Square”, complete with swirling, psychedelic accordion. Other highlights include the tense four-to-the-floor stomper “Desert Tears”, the rolling dub of “Sons of Hannibal” with it’s beautiful Middle Eastern vocal chants, the nostalgic “Egyptian Pulse” with its Steppers sound and melancholy vibes, and the dancehall vibes of “Prince Ahmed” – sounding like 3AM Kingston wrapped in a Bedouin Tent!
MundoVibe’s Editor, John C. Tripp, interviewed Zeb on his lenghty history in New York City’s ethnic dance underground and his trancendent Arabic dub that is rousing belly dancers worldwide.
MundoVibe: Your involvement with fusing rhythm, roots and electronics stretches back many years, from the East Village’s Organic Grooves and Turntables on the Hudson to many parties and albums and beyond. How did you first become involved with this influential music scene in New York?
Zeb: I was here (in New York) mainly because I played guitar with a band called The Indians which were signed to Polydor back in 89. The Indians had a very short life mostly because in the early 90s many on the major labels went through a lot of infrastructure issues and many people lost their jobs including the chairman themselves which led to the dropping of many bands including us.The eople had a minute or two of “glory” though because our tunes were used for the soundtracks of the movies Kalifornia and Reality bites.
After we got dropped we soon split and I found myself pretty much broke and kind of lost not knowing what to do next. I then took a job in a place called Bar 16 making espressos and it was then that i met Sasha Crnobrnja (yes the name is spelled right) and we started talking about music which led to the great late 70s and early 80s of the Italian club scene and names like the clubs Baia degli angeli, Cosmic, Le cigalle, Typhoon started to come up.Obviously DJ names were next – Baldelli, Loda , TBC , Mozart etc. So.. we started thinking “Hey! That stuff would be just great in New York these days huh?”
Next thing you know we spoke to Bar 16 owner and asked if we could do a weekly party involving DJ and live musicians promoting what we called Cosmic Music. Bar 16 happened to have a basement (only used for storage space ) which was actually an old Persian Hooka smoking lounge ( great uh? ). We cleaned it up and started a party in it called : Organic Grooves. The rest is pretty much history as far as the underground music scene in NY is about.we lasted over a decade and became a bit of a cult for many eople. Organic grooves kind of died out ( actually WE let it die) after 9-11. Many things were changing in NY around that time and we felt it all too well, mostly because most people in the collective were not from the US and we all had some kind of trouble with immigration and the fact that we had an interest with the East (middle east in my case) made us like some kind of terrorist supporters you remember Bush’s words ? “You are either with us or against us !” That’s what we had to deal with back then, sad huh?
Anyway I was happy to have left a mark in the NY scene and 5 organic Grooves albums by then! It was at that point that the “natives” (Nickodemus ) took over and started Turntables on the Hudson. TOTH was similar to Organic Grooves but a bit more tailored for the US. Nickodemus’ taste for the eclectic (and mastering of the turntables ) kept it fresh, Mariano was more of a straight ahead party “monster”. Last but not least people like Nappy G and me provided that live feel that people liked and missed so much from the defunct Organic Grooves. Having said that , I wanna give Giant Steps their credit too for doing that DJ/live musician thing even though Giant Step was more of a jazz funk thing and we had a lot more styles involved in the mix.
MV: What are some of the projects you’ve been involved in over the years that are most important to you?
Zeb: Frankly every project is important to me. I must say that I work alone most of the time so, the only collaboration I’ve been involved with is Nickodemus. Together we remixed some pretty big names like Billy Holiday , Natasha Atlas , Omar Faruk and a bunch of others I can’t even remember. Actually more recently Nick and I had the honor of making a tune with Afrika Bambaataa which ended up on Nick new album “Moon People” ( I still have to do another remix of that tune though). I have also kept close contacts with Sasha (now Inflagranti) and we put together an album called OBLIO which pays homage yet again to the Cosmic era we miss and respect so much. Sasha own label Kodek will be releasing that sometimes in the near future.
MV: With this long history in music, what has been your vision or trajectory over these years?
Zeb: This could take me forever to answer so I’ll keep it relatively short. Mainly, my object was to learn how to play more instruments (I play five now ) and to be self sufficient as much as I could. That’s why I pretty much do everything in my tunes ,including the mastering and sometimes even the artwork. As I’ve shown in the last couple of albums, I decided to focus almost exclusively on Middle Eastern music and especially on the Oud, the Arabic lute which I love in ways that I can’t even describe.
I believe that the eastern culture has been grossly misunderstood and I am there to make things straight if i can with music. Reggae and especially Dub is ALWAYS in the agenda for me too, because i like it and it has the spiritual element that marries so well with the middle eastern sounds. My goal as a musician has and always will be to make music with hope and beauty which we need so much these days to get over all the problems which this World seem to be so full of.
MV:P You have a longstanding relationship with DJ Nickodemus, first with Turntables on the Hudson and second being on the Wonderwheel Label. How has that friendship enabled your musical journey?
Zeb: Nick probably knows me better than i know myself by now.. =) I know he is a big fan of mine and he totally supports EVERYTING I do. I have always been happy to donate my music to his label Wonderwheel has definitely helped me a lot to reach more and more people. I just wish it will become bigger soon though because it is still relatively underground and it deserves better — I deserve better too..
MV: How did your upbringing influence your music?
Zeb: Actually my father used to wake me up when i was 8 in the middle of the night with a bunch of friends and made me play guitar for them while my mum was cooking and they were singing ( that at about 5 am ! ) Then my mum would join in and sing beautifully , harmonizing with my fathers voice.( after serving that food of course =). this is just an example of what music was to my parents ( way to go Gypsies uh? ). I don’t think i need to add anything to this.I’m just a “product” of that lifestyle i guess.
MV: For your album, “Arabadub” you programmed and performed everything on “Arabadub”, what was your desire to create on this album?
Zeb: I love arabic music and love dub ! I’ve wanted to do a record like this for a long time but i wanted to master all the instruments i play on it so i took my time. I really wanted it to sound EXACTLY like i envisioned it.actually i din’t play ALL the instruments on it though ( i wish. sigh! ). The orchestra parts were offered by Sultan strings ( turkey ) and the few Nay parts ( the bamboo flute ) played by a Tunisian friend of mine. Everyting else i played myself : The oud , The saz, The cifltelly, most of the darbouka ( some are samples.oops! ) and I programmed ALL drums and played the bass and the few synths parts. I am very happy of the outcome and it seems that people who hear this record get it instantly. It is exactly what the title says and i believe i did it respectfully to both worlds ; the Jamaican and the Middle Eastern.
MV: There are no samples on the album, was this a challenge to avoid? Why no samples?
Zeb: Actually there are a few samples but VERY few to even mention. I’ve been working with samples for so damn long.i just had enough.. this is why i keep, learning new instruments. After all.I am a musician uh?
MV: How did you go about arranging the music? What came first and was there a lot of improvisation before laying down a track?
Zeb: First of all i had to come out with a melodic idea which was obviously the arabic music so i’d look for traditional and classic arab tunes and “make them mine” by rearranging them with the Oud ( which i wanted to keep prominent in every track ) and the other instrumets like the Saz and Ciftelli. Then the orchestra parts had to be recorded and dulcis in fundo i laid down the reggae drums and bass line. When i had a strong foundation of the song I would make spaces for the Oud solos and the dubbed out parts ( let the tape delay do it’s thing.. ). I just made all of this sound easy but BELIEVE ME it was NOT. Arabic music notation is very different from western and it is great challenge to mix reggae 4/4 to a typical 1/5 or 1/7 arabic rhythm. That’s also why i had to play all the stuff live ( samples simply wouldn’t cut it.. ). I also pretty much re/wrote all the tunes in different keys to match the simplicity of the reggae sounds. All the tunes melodies came from traditional middle eastern music but by the time i was done they were MY tunes you can believe that!
MV: If there’s an overall mood to “Arabadub” it’s pensive and expansive. The beats are very heavy and deep and the accompanying instrumentation of strings and your oud playing create a counterbalance that is wistful. How did you go about balancing the heavy bass with your instrumentation?
Zeb: It pretty much came normal as i know Dub and heavy bass very well by now.. The Oud is a very deep sounding instrument and it was a time difficult to mix with the dub bass though..also the strings arrangements have a lot of depth so, i had my challenges here and there but i’m very happy of the outcome and as i answered previously i think i got the right balance. I think that i honored the Oud pretty well throughout the record which was my intention all together.
MV: Your principle instrument is the oud, a traditional instrument. Yet you have a deep involvement in digital music production as well. This is something you’ve been doing for sometime so what was the inspiration to fuse the two? There are certain producers that have worked with Arabic music in a dub context, most notably to met Bill Laswell. Where you influenced by his productions or others?
Zeb: I simply believe that there are NOT enough people doing what i do. I like and respect Bill Laswell and people like DuoOud or Jeff Stott but we are all different and i believe that there is plenty of room for more producers/musicians with an interest in The OUD. This instrument has been ignored for a long time and it has a great past!! why not give it a great future??
MV: Where did you learn the oud? Did you study under anyone?
Zeb: I picked it up by myself by listening to countless hours of Oud Taksims ( improvisations ) from the best players like Farid al Atrache and Ryad Alsunbaty to more recent players like Naseer Shamma and Simon Shaheen ( His brother Najib actually help me out a lot with picking the right style of playing ! ). The Oud has always been around in my life for one or another reason.. there was one hanging on a wall in my house when i was little but it was unplayable and all beat up so i played guitar in the earlier years.. i started to focus exclusively on the Oud 7 years ago and i abandoned the guitar all together to just focus on this amazing and honorable instrument!
MV: Do you find yourself having to defend your music to traditionalists or are they understanding of what you are doing?
Zeb: Interesting question indeed!! Well.. Classically trained arabic musician will NEVER go for what i do which is good so i don’t have too much competition..hahaha. The fact that I’m not really an arab is enough reason to turn off enough people but I also have big admirers from the Middle East JUST BECAUSE i’m not one of them but have so much respect for the Oud and their music. All in all, whatever people think isn’t gonna make me quit with my explorations in music.Real musicians from the west and the east understand that! The best music always came from those who were not afraid to mix things up after all right? One example was Mohamed Abdel Wahab , a great composer and innovator of arabic music which actually wrote music for none less than the great Um Kalthoum. nuff said!
MV: What was your exposure to music like growing up? It seems that you must have had a wide exposure to various rhythmic and experimental genres of music.
Zeb: I grew up in Brixton and Portobello road in London ( in the early 80s ) and was exposed to West indian ,Idian, Arabic music. The Brits were always keen on mashings things up, so to hear a hip hop beat with a sitar loop was quite common even back than to me. I think i grew up in the best country as far as experimental music goes. thats why we had Transglobal Underground , Loop Guru, Talvin Singh etc. The US are a bit more conservative about music to my opinion but don’t worry..I’m here now..hahaha
MV: Have you always had it in your mind to release solo records and what was the process in getting to that point?
Zeb: I ALWAYS wanted to do solo records..I know what I want and have little patience explaining to others so I just go ahead and make the music that speaks for itself.
MV: On your solo release “Secretly Famous” you featured vocal tracks yet other than “Thicker Than Hooka Smoke” and “Haboob” there are no vocals on “Arabadub”. Why the change to limited vocals?
Zeb: I think that vocals can alienate some people ( not everyone speaks arabic.. ) so i decided to let the music speak this time. Thats why i tried to add more depth and cinematic effect to it. I think there is enough melody in Arabadub to speak loud enough about -hope, love and beauty- the only 3 words i want people to hear in this record.
MV: What does your current live performance consist of? How do you recreate the songs of “Arabadub” live?
MV: Well.. the old laptop and midi controller show with live Oud and darbouka.and when i’m lucky i’m graced by some beautiful belly dancer flying around me like a butterfly.
A Classic Interview with Global Beatmaster DJ Nickodemus on the Roots of New York City’s Underground Dance Scene
This interview originally appeared on Junkmedia.org. John C. Tripp is the Editor of Mundovibes.com
DJ Nickodemus
By John C. Tripp
Within the rarefied group of DJs that cut their teeth at New York City’s weekly Giant Step parties of the mid-1990s is Brooklyn-based DJ and Producer Nickodemus. At Giant Step, Nickodemus proffered his eclectic mix of acid jazz, hip hop, house, reggae and abstract beats to an appreciative crowd that was as varied as his music: heads, hipsters, hippies and aficionados all together under one vibe. The Giant Step period was a unified and uplifting one for the New York City scene in the early 90s, before Giuliani made it a crime to dance. When Giant Step’s weekly parties came to an end (since rechristened to much acclaim with DJ Ron Trent), Nickodemus hooked up with the Organic Grooves crew and DJ’d many a one-off event. He also began producing music with collaborators Carol C, Jay B and Osiris.
At Organic Grooves, Nickodemus befriended Mariano, an Italian percussionist, forming a friendship and musical partnership that seems fateful. The two envisioned an event that would represent their musical sensibilities of mixing styles and chose the then-neglected banks of the Hudson River for “Turntables on the Hudson,” an outdoor summer party that vitalized the New York club scene with its uplifting and eclectic mix of house, Afrobeat, salsa, dub and hip-hop. “Turntables on the Hudson” has entered the pantheon of the must-attend parties, hosting an uplifting and joyous music selection by DJs and live music with a regular crew that includes DJ Nat Rahav, Mariano, percussionist Nappy G and special guests such as DJ Osiris and the Jinga Pura Samba Drum Troupe.
But “Turntables on the Hudson” is only half the picture; for Nickodemus, there’s also his work as a producer and label cofounder. In 1999, he founded Rhythm Love records with Nat Rahav, featuring their production work and as well as that of others who comprise the Rhythm Love family of DJs, producers and live musicians. The label launched “Turntables on the Hudson,” a compilation featuring the same uplifting, eclectic vibe as the party. There have been a select number of 12″ singles, an EP and two additional volumes of “Turntables on the Hudson,” the latest just released in November. The much anticipated compilation features songs by NYC artists who have contributed to the event, including Osiris, Ticklah, Zeb the pleb, BellHops remix of Groove Collective and new RhythmLove artists Little Jay, Metaprofessor and Puerto Rico-based band Local 12. The CD also features some of the party’s favorite anthems, including Carla Alexandars “Simba” and Raj Guptas remix of Robin Jones’ “Royal Marcha”.
Nickdemus also contributed to DJ Ron Trent’s debut mix CD on Giant Step records with the 12″ single, “Free Souls”, featuring the phenomenal talents of Mino Cinelu, Mitch Stein and Jay Rodriguez and the co-production of Osiris. Nickodemus and Osiris have also recently remixed the song “En Fuego”, featuring Marc Antoine with Troy Simms on guitar. On top of this, Nickodemus has been touring with Mino Cinelu to Europe and Africa as well as DJing a regular gig at Vienna’s Sunshine Club.
With all of this buzz of activity, I had a surprisingly casual meeting with Nickodemus at his home studio in Brooklyn’s Park Slope and then later at Bergen Street Beat, the cafe he is a partner in. Talking music with Nickodemus is a history lesson in New York City’s recent club culture, since he’s been active on the scene since the 1980s, when his sister snuck him into shows at the Roxy where she worked. Hip-hop is the cornerstone of Nickodemus’ musical tastes, and that’s where this interview began.
Mundovibe: I remember seeing you breakdancing last summer at “Turntables on the Hudson.” One night you had a bunch of old school stuff going on…
Nickodemus: Oh yeah, percussionists and we had some breakers. I tried to fuse all of these percussionists with B-Boys and breaks with world influence.
That’s what I like about what I heard. Would you say you came out of the old school in terms of your early influence?
Definitely. Hip-hop, old school. My sister was really inspirational for me. She used to work at these clubs like the Ritz, the Red Zone, all of these old school clubs, and used to sneak me in at like twelve years old. So I had an influence from reggae, house and hip-hop, everything really.
So, you went from being involved in the hip-hop culture in Long Island and hooking up with Giant Step as a DJ?
Yeah.
And you were one of their house DJs?
Yeah, from ’95 to ’99; whenever they stopped doing weeklies. It was nice, it was a good experience. I got to jam with a lot of good musicians and DJs. Really got to be out there and be able to think differently and not have to fit a format of hip-hop. They were really open to anything as party promoters. They never said a word to me, they were like “do whatever you want.”
Would you say that you are part of a crew now? Obviously you are not just a DJ. Is it a loose conglomeration?
Yeah. After years of being down with different people who were into the same thing, you sort of figure out who the real heads are and you go through a lot of different crews. I feel cool about the crew I’m with now. We go by the Rhythm Love Sound System. It started out of myself and Mariano, who’s cool cause I kind of mentored him as a DJ and it feels really cool to see him take it to this whole level and really do well. Everyone’s really good DJs and they have their own little specialties. When we throw parties, we just generally have some of these guys spin, depending on what type of party and what kind of vibe we want to throw down. So, Nat Rahav and me started the label, Rhythm Love records.
And, so far, you’ve had two releases?
Yeah. Two compilations and “Turntables on the Hudson”, our party on the River. We finally have our own forum. I was doing parties for years in all these little spaces. Just random, totally random, and then finally we found a spot where we could do it on a weekly basis, which was the first time for me since Giant Step. I did Organic Grooves for a while, but it was more sporadic. So it was great, we finally had our own thing to push and nurture. And it worked out nice. It blew up right away. Throughout the years people who’d always been kind of like-minded in music and in DJ style—we just hooked them up into the circle.
So, there’s a lot of sharing.
Yeah, and that’s how the compilation came out, because we tried to get tracks from these people. And a lot of people had never even produced before, but they were like “here,” and it just amazed me: ‘how’d that happen?
It’s amazing. If you actually say, “hey you can do this” and put someone up to it.
It was a platform for a lot of people, and they rose to the occasion. Like Nat, who never really DJ’d out, he never produced a lick in his life and now he’s spinning out, he has all the technology for making beats, and he’s flipping out really nice stuff. And that’s in two years.
How about yourself? When did you get into production?
I guess around ’94 I started getting my first exposure. I was with this group called Diversity, a very “Native Tongue” hip-hop group. They never really made it, but they were really, really fresh. I guess the market wasn’t ready for that, it was moving into the gangster shit, so they fell to the wayside. But those guys would bring me around the studio. That was my first exposure to it. And then I bought a sampler one year, around ’96 and just started messing around.
And, in terms of your tracks, you’ve been contributing to compilations, released your own stuff.
Yeah, I’ve done a little of everything. Depending on what kind of track it is, maybe we’ll put it out on [another] label, not our own. Or, maybe we’ll put it out on the label. It’s all mixed up, just spreading the vibes out.
One observation I’ve made is that it seems like now, in terms of hip-hop, the underground has shifted to Brooklyn, with all of the activity that’s going on. It’s a whole different vibe.
It seems that way, and I hope it stays that way. I see so many people that start like that, and they wind up selling their ass out quick. But, I like the scene, the way it’s been going. It’s nice, a lot of different, innovative things happening like more instrumentation or spoken word-influenced. All of these things are great.
Hip-hop has pretty much become a world phenomenon. So, it’s interesting now that it’s merging with other styles. How did that all happen for you?
Mariano and DJ Nickodemus
Mariano and Nickodemus
For me, since I’m a DJ, I guess that a lot of tracks that I was getting had that hip-hop element and it was right about the time I had turned hip-hop off in my head. Sort of the end of the native tongue era when all this gangster music got really commercial at one point. For example, Naz’s second album, if you compare it to his first. That time, right in between there something drastic happened. I can’t put my finger on it, because I’m not that heavy into it. I just know that I was like ‘OK, there’s very [little] hip-hop that I can deal with now, what else is out there?’ I started hearing all of these amazing hip-hop influenced beats, just instrumental, without all the words that really weren’t going anywhere. It was good, because it definitely opened my mind to a whole new style of hip-hop, or interpretation of it. And, sure enough, hip-hop was still doing it’s thing here, but you had to search a little harder to find it, or the right people were holding it down.
This was going on mainly in London?
Yeah, in London, in France, even Japan with DJ Krush who’s stuff was phenomenal to me. So, these things that fuse hip-hop with jazz and hip-hop [with] just straight instrumental stuff, so there was this whole acid jazz scene. I loved it; it had the elements of jazz and funk that I liked, and it also had the elements of hip-hop that I liked. And here they are together. You know, if you want to hear some lyrics and some content you can always check out hip-hop or you can check this out for a vibe. That’s when I started really getting into that whole vibe.
That was while you were with Giant Step?
Yeah, right before I started with Giant Step. A lot of my friends were jamming musicians, so we were always jamming it out as well. It all just started happening very naturally. It was cool.
It’s kind of going full circle in a way, cause a lot of this came out of this area anyway. It’s kind of ironic, ’cause that seems to be the circle, something comes out of New York or the States and it goes to Europe and gets recycled.
That’s the cool thing. I wish a lot more of the people here who were into hip-hop could hear this other stuff that’s happening, that really came from hip-hop in a lot of ways. And came from soul and jazz, where hip-hop came from. That’s why I like playing or producing; I love to catch those elements and educate in a way. I’ve always been into just opening people up into new styles of music and new things, as I learn and get into it. It’s fun because you see it go somewhere else in the world and transform into Indian hip-hop and then, ‘boom’, it’ll come back as a whole other thing.
It’s amazing how rapid it is now. I guess it has good and bad, because a lot of people are always onto the next thing.
Yeah, I hear what you are saying.
When you put your music together and you’re pulling from a lot of areas, that’s something that is personal for you.
Oh, definitely. I pull from hip-hop, I pull from jazz, I love Eastern music, from India from the Middle East, I love African music. All of these things, as you get older you just start feeding your soul with all of these sounds and when you start to make something it just comes out in the most true and natural way. And when it does, you’ll have, like, a very Afro Beat sound but then it’s a hip-hop beat, yet it’s like Eastern vocals. How did all of that happen, I don’t know, you don’t have to label it.
It’s funny, I’ll tell you a little story. We were just in Puerto Rico and we recorded these musicians. We made the beat here and we went down there with the 8-track. It’s kind of how we do it to record musicians, we just move around, like go to Cincinnati and record some jazz cats who are off the meter, and come home and reboot it, move things around. So, we went down there and we asked these legendary musicians, this guy Juancito Torres and Polito Huertas. They used to play with, like, Eddie Palmeri and all these cats. And we asked them to jam on our track, and we played the track for them and they were like ‘what the hell is this?’, we can’t play to a clave that’s like ‘dat, dat, dat, dat, dat’. That’s Brazilian, you can’t play to that. I’m like ‘I’m not trying to make a Latin track, I’m making a track’, you know?
They’re traditional, right?
Very traditional.
Was this an insult to them or was it like ‘what is up with this’?
Yeah, it came off at first like they were trying to say ‘hey you can’t do this, you need to educate yourself before you step to us.’ And I was like, ‘if you want to talk about it, I can tell you the rhythm, but this is a different rhythm I’m not trying to fit into a category and just because you are Latin and you play in a very Latin style doesn’t mean you can’t jam to, say, a reggae beat, you know?’
I guess it happens a lot more in, say, Brazil where there’s more of that going on. In Puerto Rico it seems like it’s really pop drabber.
More interesting. Beside the fact that he was like ‘hey, you can’t do that’, I think he just couldn’t really feel it. He wasn’t used to hearing stuff where the clave was anywhere else. And we had to be like ‘check this out’. I played him a couple other tracks trying to get him to feel the swing. And he got it, he’s a master so he was like ‘kabaam’ and he did it. But it was really interesting, because I thought he was insulting me, but he just couldn’t feel it.
But as a fellow musician he grabbed onto it.
Yeah, he grabbed it.
So, that’s your procedure, you lay down your beats and go live and improvisational with it.
Yeah and from there we may take parts of it and sample it and refreak it, or we’ll take the whole take, just the way it came, which is my favorite technique. I like, ‘OK, are you feeling this beat. What are you going to do over it, and then after you’re done, that’s it. I just like to do one take; what they feel over it, not what I want them feel. I can give them some guidance and then what happens, happens. That’s how I like to do it, but sometimes there’s no chemistry, so you’ve got to doctor it or chuck it.
You do this a lot?
Yeah. Almost all of the tracks I’ve done have had either vocalists or a percussionist or a horn player or a flute player. Generally, I like to try to get guys who are schooled in this type of music, so they can lock into the beat. There’s not too many chord progressions; it’s very lateral for them, but they understand it. It’s not traditional—eventually we’ll start making “electro salsa”, or who knows, but right now we’re doing straight-up dance tracks.
This is all stuff that you can then press or you can work into your mix or whatever?
Yeah. So, the last thing we just did. I’ve been on tour with Mino Cinelu. He’s a really sick percussionist; he used to play with Miles and Sting. So, we’ve been collaborating a lot. I’ve been doing beats and scratches on his music, and he’s doing vocals and percussion on my music. It’s a really nice exchange. He just did this really nice track called “Free Souls” to be released on Giant Step, and it’s the hip-hop beat, the funk bassline, the Afrobeat, he flipped a whole Eastern style cause he knows that’s what I love. It just came out nice, it’s a nice global fusion.
Where do you draw the line where it gets to the point where you’re just watering down too many genres? Do you ever get that kind of criticism?
I think I’m allowed to get away with it because I’m hip-hop (laughs). But if anyone wanted to really challenge me on it, I can represent. I know enough about a lot of the music that I could say ‘hey, this didn’t come out of, I had this record collection. I listen to this music.
That is conveyed in the final thing, because it’s not just slapped on.
Exactly, and if someone felt it isn’t, then they’re a true expert in that area and I humble myself to them but this is what I do. Eventually, I’ll hopefully be a master in a lot of different styles, extremely deep into everything. But, we’ll see (laughs).
Could you have done this in another city, or do you think that it’s the whole multicultural aspect of New York coming through?
I think there’s only a few cities where this can exist, you know? San Fran might pull it off, I wouldn’t even say LA. I mean, you can create a scene anywhere and people will get into it because it’s exotic to people or they just feel it. Let me try to think of a place that was totally out of the ordinary and it worked… Take Vienna, for example… Sunshine Club. That’s my other main place, besides New York. I go there plenty of times. Even now with all that stuff with Jˆrg Haider. There’s a huge Turkish flush in the workforce.
Look at the vibe over there, it’s not very multicultural like New York. Just the way they treat immigrants from Turkey, there was a big resistance to foreigners, and I’m glad that Europe blew up their spot. Europe boycotted and was like, ‘no way, this isn’t happening.’ I was there for a huge protest against Haider in the Heidenplatz, where Hitler gave his famous speeches and it was pretty intense—it was like a complete opposite thing coming out from the speakers from only sixty years ago. It was amazing, there was an amazing turnout to protest this guy. But what I was saying is that from a city that’s not nearly as diverse as this city, there’s actually more music coming out of there that’s world influenced than here. So, I don’t know if it’s really the population, it’s just a matter of what you expose yourself to.
I’ve found that it’s easier to get exposed to it via the Internet.
No doubt. Music shouldn’t be so limited, as long as you respect the traditions.
Have you ever just put out something that traditional. I was thinking Up, Bustle & Out, which is both traditional and has hip-hop beats.
Yeah, those guys are far out. They’re definitely a big influence. When I heard their first album, I was just stunned. They kicked it hard. They went all around South America and they funked it up.
Obviously you do a lot of gigs all over the place. You go to Europe more than the States?
Yeah. I’ve only been to a few places in the States, and they’ve been really small parties with little to no money. But Europe is the place. All of my music is selling in Europe. When I started DJing there in ’96 in Vienna, they loved me because I had that hip-hop sensibility of DJing: mixing and cutting it up, but using all of this current stuff that they were all into and there weren’t too many people doing it like that over there. And I just made a good mark and was able to return. I made some really tight connections with friends, and that’s it. Now, it’s like one of my favorite cities to spin. I’ve been in Paris—the Parisian scene is off the hook, it’s incredible. Almost all of the licensing for my tracks are in Paris, with random compilations like Buddha Bar. These guys are all hip to this world sound dance music.
Are there any people that you want to mention that you work with?
Yeah, sure. I work heavily now on production with Osirus. He’s a friend from growing up, and we just meet perfectly, our minds meet perfectly on the production tip. We just did a 12″ for Giant Step, we doing another 12″ on the hip-hop tip. For this latin project I brought him to Puerto Rico. We have a whole bunch of projects. He also has some solo stuff that’s going to be amazing on our label Rhythm Love.
Beatsmith par excellence, Kenny “Dope” has been making records since the late 80s. His distinctive style, both on the decks and in the studio, comes from the way he applies a Hip Hop-centric approach to both making and spinning music. He became a house hold name through his partnership with the diminutive Little Louie Vega. As MAW, the pair has provided a benchmark for producers around the world, in terms of their eagerness to push the creative envelope and embrace different styles of music. Their productions and remixes have propelled them to the top of the tree, and instead of resting on their laurels, MAW always look to take things one step further. Recently, the pair have spent time focussed on solo productions, which has given their audience a chance to re-familiarise themselves with the work of Kenny and Louie as separate musical entities.
On meeting Kenny Dope Gonzalez, it is easy to feel a little intimidated, due to his large frame and his tremendous musical achievements. However, on speaking to Mr. Dope, any initial fears are allayed. He is a relaxed guy, who, with reason, is confident of his own skills as a producer and DJ. At 13, he found music, after initially wanting to study art at school. He was born to parents of Puerto Rican origin and grew up in the working class district of Sunset Park, New York. Kenny believes that this Brooklyn suburb s musical melting pot and diverse cultural mix has had an important impact on his development.He has realised through travelling and studying the history of music that if I lived somewhere else, my music would be so different . The ethnic mix of the Sunset Park area exposed Kenny to many different styles of music from a young age.
Currently, Kenny spends two or three weeks in a month where he travels the world to DJ. He would prefer to cut this down to one or two weeks, but while I feel I want to go out and play, I must do it . As a DJ, Kenny feels his role is to both educate and give people a good party, where he likes to play a range of music. He feels it is his job to break music and play stuff that other people don t , for whatever reason. Kenny says I listen for sounds that the average person won t hear and he believes this gives him the edge over many of his
contemporaries. I asked Mr. Dope whom he respects in terms of other spinners. He says my little sister can mix and therefore there s only a select band of DJs who impress Kenny. He cites Gilles Peterson and Keb Darge as great selectors, and when it comes to technically gifted DJs, Louie Vega, Jazzy Jeff and Cash Money impress him.
The development of music technology is changing the way in which DJs work. Kenny feels he was forced to put vinyl down much against his wishes. However, as a jet-setting DJ, he was fed up with losing records or for them to turn up late. He believes you can t use the next man s records and therefore he was pushed into a corner to play CDs , but admits with CDJ s he can do just about anything he d want to do with vinyl. As a label boss, he feels the downloading culture is doing huge damage to the music industry. He s says it is a touchy subject , where kids are caught up with downloading new stuff and therefore won t want to buy the finished article. He feels there ll always be a market for vinyl collectors, but as far as CDs go, he thinks the situation is dire. As he puts it, Why buy a finished CD where you like one or two out of ten songs, when you could download ten tracks you really love for $10?
Kenny enjoys spinning in Japan, as the crowds are very knowledgeable and he feels he can play anything to them. He also has a lot of time for coming across the water to Europe, with particular favourites being England and Italy. He says you ve embraced us since the beginning, and I ve got mad love for England . When quizzed about the clubs over here, Mr. Dope says he s really impressed by how people are so open to soul music . He was surprised by that he found this a few years ago on early visits to the UK. In the US, he feels for a long time that soul music was for people of colour . Kenny admits there was one stage when he was spending so much time in London that he almost bought a house, I wish I had done, it would be worth a lot now !
With a record collection rumoured to be over the 30,000 mark, I asked Kenny about his favourite spots to pick up vinyl. He says he checks dustygroove.com every week, as they make it easy for him to keep up to date. He feels let down by many of the shops he s visited around the world, people who know the style of tracks I make should be able to sell me records , and he believes people don t sell you records in the way the used to anymore . Kenny served his musical apprenticeship behind the counter of WNR Music Centre aged 15, where you knew your 30 customers and so ordered records for them accordingly. However, Mr. Dope says he always checks out Vinyl Junkies when in London, as he normally finds something there, and being a music addict, Kenny admits I m always curious to find new records !
Kenny says that the records in his vast collection are an important inspiration. He is critical of young producers today who have not studied the music of the past, and make stuff that is so minimal . He says that just listening to stuff by Pete Rock, Marley Marl etc can inspire something different . When it comes to producers currently making House, there are only a few who are currently exciting Kenny. He is impressed by the likes of Kerri Chandler and Osunlade,who have good grasp of what works musically.
It is blatantly obvious from hearing a couple of bars of one Kenny s records, that he has made the beats. Programmed with an incredible vitality and strength, he believes they ve become his signature because he s very criticalwith the sound and that his Hip Hop background gives it the edge . He admits that originally, he used a different drumkit for every single production, down to even using a set of dissimilar beats on vocal and dub versions of remixes! When working in the studio with such luminaries such as Roy Ayers, George Benson and Jocelyn Brown, Kenny feels things work in the same way as when he just sits in the studio and manipulates samples. Incredibly, the vocals and musical parts for some of their most famous tracks such as You Can Do It (Baby) which featured George Benson, were recorded in one or two takes. Mr. Dope believes the reason why him and Louie were able to do this was because the artists they work with trust our musical judgement and realise that MAW want to capture their vibe and take it to the next level . Understandably, considering the array of talent that MAW have worked with in the past, the list of people that Kenny would still like to collaborate with is now very small. He wishes that they d been able to do something with Fela on the Nu Yorican Soul album before he passed away, and would love to work with Stevie Wonder, but feels Stevie is hard to touch .
As remix dons, Kenny and Louie have waived their magical production wand over tracks by a huge rang of artists. Kenny says every one was a challenge and as they wanted each remix to be better than the previous one, the more we progressed, the harder it got . They booked studios for weeks at a time in order to complete mixes, where Kenny would make beats in one room and Louie would then add more components in another. Tracks would then go back and forth, and they often had two or three remixes on the go at once. Kenny picks out remixes of Lisa Stansfield, Alison Limerick and their own revision of You Can Do It (Baby) as a trio of his personal favourites.
On the compilation front, Kenny has put out a few choice selections over the years. He enjoys compiling them because he feels it is just an extension of him playing records. He admits that his Lifestyles compilation caught a lot of people off guard , but he wanted to release it to show there is good music out there if you are willing to listen with an open ear .
Understandably, Kenny has a special relationship, with his long-term production partner and friend, Louie Vega. Kenny feels their partnership works because we are completely different types of people , this isn t just musically but also from food to women to clothes& . He believes that when they work alone we can hold our own , but when they link up, they have something special . Kenny cites scheduling as the biggest difficulty for them at the moment with regards to spending time in the studio together. He s not sure how we managed to do the amount of stuff we did together in the past , but crazy deadlines probably had something to do with their productivity.
Louie s Elements Of Life album has finally seen the light of day, and his Vega Records label has been very productive of late. Not to be outdone, Mr. Dope has one or two things up his sleeve. He wants to release between three and five albums this year, including a Broken beat styled album, a soulful house longplayer and a live-based soul and funk album for his Kay Dee label. Kenny now feels comfortable and so finds he spends a week chilling after touring , but he still has the zest to make new records a reality. He has achieved a great deal, but is still hungry for more.
Argo’s passion for djing began back in the early 90’s in NYC while checking out the weekly Giant Step parties, Soul Kitchen, and assorted funky bizniz at S.O.B.’s. Around 1995 in Philly, the hands down favorite party and source of inspiration was King Britt’s Back to Basics. It was at these clubs that Argo was exposed to some of the initial phases of a worldwide improvisational jazz meets dancefloor phenomenon which was to be the major stepping stone for the sound currently known as “broken beat”. The amalgamation of sounds found in this music inspired his direction as a dj: to make musical mappings between disparate traditions, by exploring, innovating, educating, and experimenting.
In 1997 he hooked up with the a Philly crew called MilkToast and opened for various funk/groove bands including Brooklyn’s Justice League, Galactic, and the Jazzyfatnasties. He became a resident at a night called HomeCookin’ where he mixed and scratched live with the jazz and hip-hop group, Fathead. At Silk City, abstract trip-hop and downtempo jazz set the stage for a weekly party called Dippin’ where he dropped records along side of hip-hop icons, Schooly D, and dj Kid Swift. It was around this time that Argo was guesting at Crasta’s Nebula parties at Club 1415, Cozmic Cat’s Groove Lounge, Soul Samba, and had a weekly internet show which was broadcast live on Media Bureau Networks.
Argo has spun on radio stations WKDU, and WPRB, kept a Saturday residency at the long running Grass night at Silk City and has organized large outdoor summertime events in the park for the past 2 years in both West Philadelphia and Center City. He has been a recurring guest at Blake’s legendary Don’t Fake The Funk, NYCs weekly broken beat party, Royal Flush at Coz, and has opened up for artists such as Goldie, Fauna Flash, Mj Cole, and Titonton.
Argo was a co-founder of Mud People. These were packed, late-night, underground warehouse parties which took place in an intimate lounge setting, scattered with plush couches and filled with sound. Various multi-media was mixed realtime with live cameras which were fed into a video projector and multiple television sets. A graphic designer by trade, Argo was instrumental in the visual side of these events as well as the creation of all printed promotions.
Today Argo runs Broke & Beat Radio with dj 99. A weekly archived, online radio show which features the very latest in broken beat and neo-soul. As many as 400 listeners per day tune in from all over the world including the UK, Japan, France and the Netherlands and is ranked high in all the major search engines. Broke & Beat radio has received support from friends at Giant Step (NYC), Compost Records and IntoSomething (Munich,Germany), RythymLove Records (NYC), Freaked.co.uk, the Acid Jazz Listserve, Cosmic Sounds Records, and Soma Records, as well as receiving press in UK magazine, Straight No Chaser. The show has aired guest appearances by Rich Medina (Philly), Nik Westion (London), RhythmLove’s Nat Rahav (NYC), and is the home of King Britt’s Full Circle archive.
Mundovibes spoke with Argo on his DJing activities and the Philly scene.
Mundovibes: First, I want to give you big props on Broke & Beat radio. It’s been a source of great music for me, and I’m sure for a lot of people.
Argo: Well, thanks.
MV: You’ve got a strong presence on the web, so you’ve probably got an international crew that’s checking you out?
A: Yeah, we do. The traffic is constantly growing. We have a core group of users but it’s like anything: you toss the stuff out there and it’s really hard to get a specific read on exactly how it’s going over. We get occasional feed back, but that doesn’t necessarily give an accurate assessment of the big picture… then i’ll see people putting us at the top of their list, next to fuckin’ Gilles’ show or something. Thats a nice feeling.
MV: It’s definitley influencing a lot people’s listening habits.
A: Yeah, it seems like that.
MV: How do you get your guests to submit sets for Broke & Beat radio?
A: A lot of the people are people we’ve met, people we know. We don’t really take submissions from random people. It’s more like people we contact or know already. I have a list of people who’ve promised sets. It’s one of those things, like ‘the check’s in the mail.’ It’s tough to get onto the top of people’s priority list. I’m definitely on the lookout for getting more guests in there. Even when I run into people, and I touch down, it’s still difficult.
MV: Would you say it’s making an impact in the states or in Philadelphia. Do people check it out there too?
A: Most of our listeners are from the US. It fluctuates quite a bit, but there’s a lot of people coming from Japan. First the US, Japan, the UK then France. The “broken beat” thing is definitely an underdog over here though.
MV: It’s not even registering with a lot of people here.
A: Yeah. Even in New York. I short while ago i touched down with Hiro, who does a night called Royal Flush in New York and it surprised me to learn that his crew was one of the few acts in town that were focused on broken beat. I guess just because it’s the big apple i figured there would be more of a positive response to it but it doesn’t sound like that’s the case.
MV: Well, I’m here in Chicago and we have Groovedis, which is a big promoter ‘broken beat’ is here. Although, it doesn’t mean there’s a lot of people spinning it that much here.
A: It’s a different world: the nightclub world and the ‘home listening’ world are completely seperate for a lot of people. There’s this kind of fantasy PR land of names and personas that some people need in order to motivate them to show up. Jazzanova played here in Philly on a weekday and packed the place with a crowd that consisted mostly of people i had never seen before in my life… which was bizarre.
So trying to do nights that focus on lesser know genres or trying to bring lesser known artists to town is not a piece of cake. I get the impression that people think the broken beat scene in Philly must be amazing. There’s some great things happening and a huge amount of talent in this town: Ivan Ross just released a track on Skin Deep, Rob Paine of Worship throws the hot reggae party Solmonic Sound System, Alma Horton plays fairly regularly, the Black Lilly thing and Rich Medina’s night is pretty off-the-hook, and you have Vikter and King. But, as far as going out and hearing somebody drop a significant amount of broken beat: it aint’ gonna happen.
MV: It’s either hip hop or house, it seems.
A: Yeah. Rich’s nights are really good. He plays a lot of Fela (Kuti) and he’ll drop broken beat in his sets but it’s very house centered. I’m talking about his ‘Afro-Rican Vibes” night.
MV: The point is that broken beat is kind of a post-club vibe.
A: Yeah, but it doesn’t have to be and it shouldn’t be. Broken beat is so hot in a peak hour dancefloor setting and there is no reason why there shouldn’t be more of it here. I try and do as much as i can because I know it’s possible to blow the spot with it, and so few people are doing it. King Britt is one. He had a night called ‘Harmony’. The selection was dope: it was all over the place from classic acid jazz and trip hop tracks to house and the latest broken biz. We would all show up, lurk in the shadows, try to name the tracks, and he would drop the latest broken CD-R jammies for us music geeks.
MV: When was this?
A: This is the past six or seven months. But, the turnout wasn’t as big as you would expect. You would think, like ‘OK, King Britt has a weekly, of course that will blow up’. Not so. It’s a shame too because people around the globe would love to be able to go check him out on a weekly basis but for some reason the crowd wasn’t there. He’s a really tight dj — technically as well as from a taste standpoint.
MV: He represents, in so many ways, the new school of Philly soul.
A: And he’s been pushing that sound here for a long long time. Back to Basics was the jam. Anyone who was into acid jazz or into this stuff now looks back longingly on those parties, ’cause there really hasn’t been anything else quite like it. Like anything though, things kind of run their course and new crowds start to dominate and push the old out. I often wonder where all those back to basic acid jazz heads went.
MV: They stopped going out, and then the next generation just didn’t latch onto it.
A: It’s not like it’s been all downhill since then. There was a Saturday night called Grass in that same club, called ‘Silk City’ that i was lucky enough to be a part of. Grass had a three year run and it was a mix of drum’n’bass, trip-hop and assorted jazzy dancefloor stuff. That was one of the longest running parties in Philadelphia at that time.
MV: Well, let’s back up and get some background on you. You’ve been immersed in this scene for some time and how did you get turned on to it?
A: I’ve always been a big fan of music, jazz and soul mostly, but it was around ’95-96′ when I really started latching onto things like Metalheadz, UFO, Krush, Jamiroquai, Dego, 4 Hero. So, a lot of the influence came from that. Another inspiration was going to the Giant Step parties up in New York, seeing DJ Smash and Chillfreez, Groove Collective. And just really getting into that ‘live musician versus dancefloor DJ vibe’. Then it was probably around ’99, I went on a record quest with backpack to London, and that trip musically knocked me for a loop. This was right around when the Neon Phusion album had just hit the racks, and I was like ‘what the hell is this jazz stuff? It doesn’t sound like Acid Jazz.’ I just knew it sounded completely different from Acid Jazz — Uptempo techno tracks with live drum sounds. I picked up every Laws of Motion and Main Squeeze record I could find. And then I really started finding out about these guys: the I.G. (Culture) and the whole People crew. And I’ve just been on a mission since then.
MV: To expose the music?
A: Yeah, to find out more about it… see if i could turn people on to it. I can kind of understand why it didn’t blow up right away. A lot of that early Main Squeeze stuff can be hard to get your head around and really latch onto in a dance floor setting. That influences what DJs buy, the stock in stores, the amount able to be pressed and the availability which directly effects the popularity of the music. I did seem to notice a certain point that experimentation was kind of dulled down generally speaking.
MV: Did it become a formula?
A: No i wouldn’t say that, i don’t really have a negative take on it. But it seemed like there was a period of time where there was an effort to make things more dance floor accessible. It’s hard to make a blanket statement like that, but it definitely seemed to me like ‘Wow, they’ve taken these broken sensibilities and made something that people could dance to’. But the people still don’t want to dance to it! (laughter). That’s is so frustrating. This stuff is so bangin’, it’s so danceable, it’s like ‘they did you a favor, they cut out a few of the beats. What are you a fuckin’ moron?’ (laughter). But people seem to need the thumpy-thump or something they recognize, and this is every dj’s struggle — it’s just a universal dancefloor thing i guess and not really something to complain about. You have an obligation as the dj to make it happen so…
MV: So, you’re kind of on a mission here in a sense.
A: I guess the mission is more of a symptom of a passion for the music. I’ve definitely pushed this sound. We’ve done a number of things here. One was starting a series of free outdoor parties in the park in center city and west philly. We did a number of these events over the years: July 4, 2000 was our first one. It was really crowded, so many people came out and there were dogs running everywhere, frisbees, a drum circle and plenty of ice cold ones. We wanted to something of an outdoor jazz thing and it really took off.
MV: Do you go up to to New York to spin?
A: I went up not too long ago with the ‘Royal Flush’ cats. I got to play with Titonton when he played up there, which was very cool. I’m on that tweaky minimal Nu Era, techno tip right now.
MV: How do you contrast New York with Philadelphia since they’re so close.
A: In what way?
MV: Is New York more receptive?
A: Well, it’s definitely apples and oranges, because New York is so much bigger. All of the friendly peeps i met up there recently seem to have a certain amount of frustration and were itchin’ to come to Philly to see what was going on here. I didn’t notice the broken beat thing being all that different, as far as the crowd that comes out. You have a certain ratio between heads and people who don’t care that is pretty similar. The overall dynamic in Philly is different though. New York has got the borroughs happening, whereas in Philly the bulk of the nightlife is just Center City. There are lots of great little vibrant neighborhoods in areas of South and West Philly that are refreshingly different from Center City, but Center City is where the majority of the club life is. It’s tough to have a consistent venue and try to build a following anywhere else, in my experience. However a friend of ours takes over a dive bar in West Philly, brings in some self powered speakers and those parties are a blast! But unless you’re doing something in a warehouse space, or throwing a one-off renegade or something, it’s tough.
MV: And then you’re talking about a different kind of music.
A: Yeah, most of the North Philly warehouse parties are more of a rave or hip hop scene. I’ve been to some B Boy battles that have been pretty amazing. But it seems with broken beat you are stuck in the middle as a promoter: you can’t get the young raver warehouse kids out since a lot of them aren’t of age, and and older crowd may be less accepting of more experimental stuff. Our target audience always lies somewhere in the middle, so you really have to supplement it with house and variety. Its important to keep some education in your sets. Gotta give the people what they need, along with what they want.
MV: Well, with Broken Beat radio, that’s something where you don’t have to compromise?
A: That was actually the reason we started it. Stephanie 99 and I started a night called “Broke and Beat” which was a bit of a learning process. I don’t know why I didn’t see the signs sooner but you have to be a little flexible instead of trying to force your way into peoples’ heads saying, ‘Broken beat. It’s amazing. You need to get with this. We’re doing a whole night of it’. You have to present them with ‘There’s a really hot party. Everybody’s going’. and put a cool slant on it, get the right people involved, promote the hell out of it and then drop the broken beat on em’ at the end of the night. Gradually you pull people over to your side.
So, at any rate, when we started that night it was pretty slow. It was a Wednesday, and this place is just far enough from center city that you need a car or take a cab. And it rained. We had some Afro beat drummers come in and set up their drums. We did this broken-beat-slash-live-afro-beat thing a number of times, and it was hot, but it was a tough day of the week to make happen crowd-wise.
So the radio show motivation came out of the feeling ‘this sucks. I’m so over dealing with these fucking club owners, I don’t want to have to twist peoples’ arms to come out. There’s so much stuff that i’m buying every week that I want people to hear, and so what if we have 10 people listening to us on the web?’ So we just did our thing… and it turned into something a lot bigger than we imagined.
One other thing that I’m currently doing is are Mud People parties. That’s with a couple of different cats. One of the guys, Lorne, has been one of the group of us acid jazz pushers here in town and his taste is impeccible. You can hear his latest track on http://www.fromphillywithlove.com. Edwin you can catch on the radio show and his sets speak for themselves. So the Mud People plan was to give a moving party an abstract name, push the house thing a little bit but more geared toward organic and rootsy, and have no boundaries, don’t define it.
Mud People is probably the most successful thing that I’ve done to date. We started with Fauna Flash but the ownership of the club changed hands. So, we wound up setting up shop in this warehouse space that is called Media Bureau.
MV: I’ve heard of them.
A: They used to do online broadcasts and video streaming and now they do more web design. But it’s a huge warehouse, like half the block. So, they have an office area and then there’s a huge space that looks like a thrift store exploded. There’s couches everywhere and they have TV sets and a video projector and a huge soundsystem. We had a disco ball and funky lights and I made these looping video collages, since they have a video mixer where we could overlap different images. And we had our little lipstick cam on the DJ booth. It was kind of like a Ninja Tune kind of thing where we were playing with all the different video. The vibe in there was so thick and we’d go until 5AM.
MV: And this was an underground event?
A: Yes, this was all BYOB, just a house party but like a club. It’s the same place where Rope a Dope records is now. They moved above the space, so basically that whole area is for music: Rope a Dope, us doing Mudd People and then Rich Medina lives on the third floor in this amazing apartment. And then King Britt’s Five Six Media is there. We did a few parties with Rope a Dope records as well; they threw a party with the artist collective Heavyweight, with them painting live. But, the sad ending to that story is the cops showed up one night and we got raided. There were about 6 cops and a licensing inspector and they came in before the party started. They had some questions about the flyer: it said something about a ‘booming sound system’. It was all subjective, grey area bullshit but when the inspector came in and started shining his flashlight around saying, ‘if you’re charging a cover and opening it up to the public, you’re all of a sudden held to this other standard. So, they can’t do parties and charge a cover there. Since then they shot a DVD there for Charlie Hunter but it was invite only and no cover. But not any five in the morning, drunkin’, rockin’ out parties anymore. But it was really good for a while.We just moved to Fluid nightclub and it’s been a couple of months since the Media Bureau.
Argo’s Guide to Philadelphia’s Dance Music Culture
Cue Records
617 S. Fourth St.
215-413-3525 http://www.cuerecords.com
This is one place that is a must stop for all. Downstairs is one of the dopest hip-hop selections in the city. They have a used jazz and soul collection that rivals the best. Staff buyer Dj Botany 500 has impeccable taste and will dig you up that original Dom Um Romao on Muse if you buy him a cheesesteak.
Some of the other genres they carry include, Dub, Jungle, Breaks and a solid assortment of current nu-jazz. Another nice thing about Cue is their back stock. Records by Compost, Far Out, Laws of Motion, Schema, Stereo Deluxe etc that may be scarce in other places but are still here collecting dust. (I know they still have 2 copies of the Total Science remix of Vikter’s Messages)
One final note… Cue is going to be cleaning shop with a 5 year anniversary %50 off sale soon. So keep your ear to the grapevine, show up in the morning, and get ready to throw some elbows.
611 Records
611 S. 4th Street
215-413-9100 www.611records.com
Essential stop two doors down from Cue with a different vibe. They focus a bit more on house, techno, and jungle. You probably have more of a chance at finding that elusive Goya promo (and things of that nature) here, than anywhere else in the city. All the very latest deep and funky house. Plenty of four to the floor mixed in with bossa tres jazz, osunlade, guidance, afro art, theo parrish etc. Take your time in here….
About the Beat
1106 Pine St.
215-351-2328
Definitely a store to check out if you’re on a shopping spree for current dance tracks. No promises though because the shop just changed owners so go down there and steer them towards Archive and 2000 Black.
Armand Records
1102 Filbert St.
215-592-7003 or 215-592-7973
Great spot for everything from house and nu-jazz, to hip-hop and dusty reggae 45s. Joey Blanco, Paulie Paul and Kenny Meez are guaranteed to hook you up with the latest jamz. Make sure you wear earplugs for the loud booty music on the system if you want to stay any length of time though.
Sound of Market
15 S. 11th St.
215-925-3150
Great place to find domestic house, with an occasional broken piece that goes unnoticed. Really good prices on current and classic hip-hop.
Recordkingdom
813 North 5th Street http://www.recordkingdom.com
A warehouse full of soul jazz goodies… i imagine a visit being similar to being invited into the wine cellars of Chateau Mouton Rothschild. Not open to the public however you can check them out online at the above url.
Philadelphia Jazz Record Exchange
608 S. Fifth St.
215-925-7892
A Philly institution with great prices on used jazz and soul. Pharoah Sanders to Lorez Alexandria to Cymande… you know the deal.
Princeton Record Exchange
20 S tulane st, Princeton NJ
One of the largest selections of 2nd hand vinyl around. Plenty of sweet jazz and soul nuggets hiding in there. Lots of pricey rare jazz if thats your bag. They do order current Ubiquity titles and other “dance” records, but it’s not their strong piont. No listening booths…
Plastic Fantastic
26 W. lancaster ave, ardmore PA
If you have time to sort through stacks and stacks of 2nd hand vinyl you may get lucky. My search for the 1st Dream Warriors LP ended here.
“Music is always a healer, It doesn’t matter if it is mine or someone else’s. I have a real emotional connection with music and think the first step of making great music is being a fan of others music” — Dub Gabriel
An Interview With Dub Gabriel
Pushing the boundaries of rock, dub, world and electronic music has been San Francisco-based Dub Gabriel’s mission since he began DJing in the ’90s underground of New York City. His musical explorations in Brooklyn in the mid 90’s drew him to the outer limits of the New York scene where he got his start as a DJ at the legendary Limelight. His genre-bending style and hard-hitting sets launched him as a trailblazing figure in the New York underground club scene. A Producer, DJ and multi-instrumentalist, Dub Gabriel has three full-length solo albums under his belt, with a fourth, the aptly titled “Raggabass Resistence” on its way in March. Additionally, he’s collaborated with an incredible spectrum of artists like Michael Stipe, U Roy, Yo! Majesty, Bachir Attar & The Master Musicians of Jajouka, members of Bauhaus, Googol Bordello, Meat Beat Manifesto and P.I.L.
The culmination of many years of musical exploration are manifest on “Raggabass Resistence”. Combining his driving signature beats with live strings, guitars and synths, and mixed ‘n dubbed through an arsenal of vintage analog gear – Dub Gabriel has created the bass-driven foundation for some of the most respected figures in reggae and electronic music to step up to the plate: U-Roy, Warrior Queen, The Spaceape (Kode9/Burial), Brother Culture (On-U/Mungo’s Hi Fi), Jahdan Blakkamoore (Major Lazer), Dr. Israel, MC Zulu, Juakali, PJ Higgins (Temple of Sound), David J (Bauhaus/Love & Rockets), Pedro Erazo (Gogol Bordelo), and Mark Pistel (Hercules & Love Affair) – they all blaze with a burning fire to create an album of epic proportions.
Writes Dub Gabriel of the new record: “With the new album I feel I have finally achieved the future-organic sound that I have been striving for my whole life. In an age where music has become disposable, I set out to create an album that will hopefully stand the test of time and still feel relevant for years to come – just like the classic albums I fell in love with as a youth… I wanted to honor what I fell in love with when I first discovered this music but to call this a traditional reggae album would be a far stretch – I am fully at the controls and I give it my own voice to push it into the future to create a sound that I like to call RAGGABASS!”
As a DJ, Dub Gabriel is much in demand on the international club circuit dropping sets alongside other genre defying DJ’s and artists that include, Kode 9, DJ Craze, Banga, Bomb Squad, Jazzanova, Scientist and Meat Beat Manifesto. He is a regular guest at Francois K’s legendary Deep Space night at Cielo and has even held down sets at Givenchy’s runway show during China Fashion Week in Beijing, Puma’s World Cup party in Berlin and the 50th Anniversary of the Peace Bell Ceremony at the United Nations.
MundoVibe caught up with Dub Gabriel just as he wrapped up his Kickstarter campaign for “Raggabass Resistence”.
MundoVibe: Firstly, congratulations on the completion of your kickstarter campaign for your new full-length recording which has been in the works for a few years and features collaborations with U-Roy, Spaceape, Warrior Queen, David J (Bauhaus/Love and Rockets), Brother Culture, Jahdan Blakkamoore, Dr. Israel, MC Zulu, Juakali and Mark Pistel. Clearly this is your most expansive and ambitious project to date, can you tell us about its genesis and development — what did you set out to do with this record?
Dub Gabriel: Thanks. And yes, I’ve been working on this album for over 3 years now, definitely the longest I’ve spent on a project. Part of the reason was that my constant touring schedule was not giving me enough time to focus on recording, so I quit playing live a year ago to focus on the album and told myself that I would not gig ‘til it was done. My goal was simple, write great songs and make them sound great too. I didn’t want to make dance tracks or abstract-electronic, but wanted to incorporate those elements and have the tracks be 100% song driven, with vocals and great hooks and, have the album flow from beginning to end.
A weird thing happened when dubstep made it’s way across the pond to the States, the dub Influence was entirely striped out of it and replaced with top-40 Lady Gaga type vocals with no experimentation at all. It’s actually the opposite of what dubstep was all about, totally formulaic and marketed to the masses.
MV: Are the results as you expected? What surprises and revelations arose with this record?
DG: Actually, the results were exactly what I expected because this album was about taking my time and doing things right. If I didn’t like a mix or a part, I would go back into the studio until it was. This is my fourth solo album and its completion not only marks 10 years since my first but, it also fell on my recent 40th birthday – over the years I have definitely grown as an artist and my constant desire to master my craft and represent it to the best of my ability has taught me discipline and patience. I can honestly say there weren’t too many surprises along the way and that the end result is that this album is my proudest work to date.
Contributors to Dub Gabriel’s “Raggabass Resistence”:
MV: This is your first recording in which you’ve utilized Kickstarter to help fund the project. How has the experience been for you — is this the future of indie music?
DG: Kickstarter and the many other crowdfunding platforms out there are the wave of the future for independent creators – not just for music, but also for art, film, dance, publishing, new inventions and so much more. I was an active pledger well before I started my own campaign, because the way I see it, engaging directly with people with creative ideas and supporting them in funding their projects encourages positive growth in our society. Direct funding enriches us as a whole and promotes sustainable independent businesses that fill our lives with culture. I have to admit that diving in for the first time with my own project was a bit daunting but I always had faith that my supporters would rally to support me in releasing music in the way that I wanted. The outcome is that this will be my first album to get the vinyl treatment, and more than anything, that I am now closer than ever to my fan base.
MV: Your sound seems to have taken some steps forward by using some vintage gear like Moog and ARP synths, vintage Space Echoes and Echoplexes. How did this change your production methods and the sound of the recording?
DG: Well, I come from a traditional studio background having spent many years playing bass in bands – I was always into production and my earliest studio endeavors were recorded to 2” tape, which definitely gave me a grounding in analog sound. But you are right, my use of analog synths has been steadily growing over the last 5 years – the studio I would use when I was living in NY had both a Prophet and a Moog Voyager which I grew to love, then when I moved to San Francisco, two things happened: I bought a Moog and started working with Mark Pistel out of his Room 5 Recordings studio. Mark is a veteran of the electronic music scene who now plays with Hercules & Love Affair and some of his previous projects include Consolidated, Disposable Heroes of Hiphoprisy and Meat Beat Manifesto (who he still plays with when they go out on the road). The two things Mark and I really bond over are analog synths and a love for dub – Mark has an amazing arsenal of synths so there were many times on this album that I would work on parts in my studio using a softsynth and then take it to Mark’s where we would just keep the MIDI to trigger any analog synth we wanted, with the holy grail that is the ARP 2600 being one of my favorites. And as far as tape delays go, we had plenty of choices as I myself own a Fulltone TTE and Mark owns an Echoplex and two Space Echoes – truly a dubbers paradise!
ON DUB MV: Although dub has had a tremendous influence on music production and how we hear (and feel) music, its impact in the States is not entirely apparent. Ask the average Joe on the street what dub is and they’d shrug their shoulders. So, the incredible rise of dubstep here is interesting, it seems to have tapped into something. How do you see the place of dub today, both in the underground and mainstream?
DG: Dub is not a genre as much as it is a state of mind, and dub music as you and I know it will always be in the underground. As far as dub’s influence on the mainstream goes, it’s impact cannot be underestimated; when you have hip hop guys rapping on top of a DJ spinning records, that has it’s roots in dub; when you hear a remix of a popular song, that too is drawing on dub techniques; and when you hear hit songs by No Doubt, The Clash, Massive Attack, Damian Marley and M.I.A, many of those owe an allegiance to dub. But dub will never be Top 40 in its own right, it is rebel music, it’s a soundtrack for people who choose to live to the beat of a different drummer – dub’s revolutionary roots run deep and it will be guiding us for generations to come.
MV: How has the whole dubstep movement and culture influenced you? Do you see it as its own movement or just part of the evolution of dub and bass music?
DG: I was living in Berlin in 2005 when I first started to hear a lot of dubstep coming out of the UK. It was heavy in dub and experimental sounds so there was a lot I really liked about it. It reminded me of what we had going on in Brooklyn with the experimental dub and illbient scene so I felt a kinship with it. The great thing about the UK is that its urban roots are Caribbean, so their dance music has a dub foundation to draw on. When I was first started getting into electronic music in the early 90’s, it was jungle sampling reggae records combined with phat bass lines that really sparked my interest. At that time I had dreads down my back and was listening religiously to Upsetters records – so hearing a fusion of my favorite roots music with electronic elements really got me going. So anyway, I experienced UK dubstep as a natural part of that musical evolution.
But a weird thing happened when dubstep made it’s way across the pond to the States, the dub Influence was entirely striped out of it and replaced with top-40 Lady Gaga type vocals with no experimentation at all. It’s actually the opposite of what dubstep was all about, totally formulaic and marketed to the masses. Dubstep DJ’s here are now household names and the current large-scale electronic music scene in America is an abomination created by corporations. Local Dance music promoters have been shoved out by fake touring festivals organized by Live Nation coming to every medium market stadium parking lot in this country. It sort of rips the heart and soul out of the underground and once again turns into a product of the American mass-market machine.
ON COMING UP/INFLUENCES
MV: You came up in the underground music scene of New York City and Brooklyn. What was that experience like for you and what were some of the key artists, events and ideas that had an impact on you?
DG: Well, when I moved to Brooklyn in the ‘90’s I wasn’t making beats yet nor DJ’ing or anything like that – I was a bass player who was into studio production. The whole Knitting Factory scene really was exciting to me and Tonic had just opened its doors so I was regularly going to see people like John Zorn, Bill Laswell, Marc Ribot and all the Downtown scene. I was also going to places like The Cooler and seeing things like Thurston Moore playing with Rashied Ali, I saw a lot of amazing shows in my first few years in NY.
I was living in Williamsburg at the time and it was very different to how you know it today, back then you couldn’t even get a taxi to take you there. But the cool thing about it was the community; it was like a small town in the middle of a big city. It was there that I first started to link with the local dub and electronic scene, I started to make beats and to throw the Brooklyn Massive warehouse parties that ran for years. It was a fun time with Baraka Foundation and Wordsound Recordings crankin out tons of great music. Bill Laswell was also a big influence as he had his studio in nearby Greenpoint and was very supportive of the scene. Dr. Israel and I still work together and I also recently reconnected with Professor Shehab who just moved back to the US after many years of living in Iran, he and I have been working on a new Qaballah Steppers record, the first one since 2001.
MV: The Brooklyn reggae scene in places like Bed-Stuy, as I remember, was very underground and real. Did this scene have an influence on you — were you part of it?
DG: Bed-Stuy wasn’t really an epicenter as much as Crown Heights, Utica Ave and up in the Bronx. I was in and out of some of that scene. I linked up some with Jahlife who is a NY reggae scene legend though sadly uncredited for the most part, and I was tight with the guys at Jammyland who held down the scene for years. I don’t know them personally, but I would also have to give huge respect to Wackies.
MV: Were DJ/Producers such as Francois K and Bobby Konders influences?
Dub Gabriel & Francois K
DG: Francois is a legend in NY for sure and I have DJ’ed with him many times. I have been playing his Deep Space party at Cielo since the first year it started and he has always been gracious enough to keep an open invite for me to play anytime. Before getting to know him I went to a few of the original Body & Soul parties, and even though I was not a big house guy, I couldn’t resist the good vibes at those nights. Now with his Deep Space parties he effortlessly mixes house, techno, dub, dubstep and whatever he wants in such a smooth way that no one ever feels left out. I have learned a lot gigging with him. Bobby Konders I don’t know personally, he does a very mainstream reggae show on Hot 97 that was never really my scene, but much respect to his legacy.
MV: You got your start DJing at New York City’s Limelight Club in the 90’s, a time when club culture was at its peak in the city. How did you land a gig at Limelight, what were you spinning then and what was the overall experience like?
DG: I was incredibly broke back then, barely scraping by, so my friends and I started to go to art openings around Soho, Chelsea and the Meat Packing District because we knew they were always good for free wine and food – sometimes that was our only meal of the day. People at these openings would invite you to other openings or you would sign up on the list, so eventually we were hitting 2 or 3 of these a week. Mixed with some early dot com parties and a record industry party here and there, that is basically how we survived. Around that time I got a job working for an indie electronic label that had some success releasing Moby’s early albums and I also started to explore beat making. So at one of those art openings I met the girlfriend of Peter Gatien, the “King of New York Clubs” who owned the Limelight and several others at that time. She was going to start throwing art openings at the Limelight and asked me if I would be interested in DJ’ing. I was really just starting to DJ but in New York, you find yourself trying out lots of new jobs, anything for a buck to survive off of, so I was happy to do it. I must have done a dozen openings there, it was very cool playing in the Chapel room. Because it was an art party, I could get as experimental as I wanted, cutting up Tuvan throat singing with a guitar delay pedal hooked up to a turntable, and dropping dub, instrumental hip hop and other stuff behind it. Eventually they gave me the opportunity to play in the main room, and also the H.R. Giger room, which they commissioned Giger himself to create -that was basically hell in the middle of a church and sort of a good metaphor for what that club was all about.
MV: Was Limelight your launching pad then and what did it lead to from there? Were you always producing music as well as DJing?
DG: I was DJ’ing at the Limelight, working at a record label and going out almost every night of the week – my social circles were really building up, so I started throwing warehouse parties in Brooklyn. They became pretty legendary and were written up in the NY Times, Village Voice and Time Out NY. Then Interview Magazine did a feature on the 30 most influential people in NY with me in it, which obviously was a huge boost to my career. Anyway, it was around that time that I got into music production software from a hacker friend named Dirty Bomb, and I started using early Cubase, Logic (before it was owned by Apple) and Sonic Foundry Acid, which is where it all really began.
ON THE MUSIC MV: Dub is very much a physical music, you can literally feel the bass run up your spine. Do you feel that this what makes it such a deep and spiritual thing? What is it about dub that resonates so deeply with you and listeners?
DG: You definitely feel musical instruments in different parts of your body, the drums or beat hits your ass, while guitar hits your head, and the bass, especially in dub, that hits you in your chest – it’s heart music. The rhythm is the heartbeat and the bass massages everything around it. I’ve been following this frequency most of my life, in 5th grade I joined the school orchestra and played the upright bass because I loved that low tone, so rich, so warm and by the time I was 13 I was immersed in punk rock and I got my first bass guitar. Then in ‘85 Bad Brains came to town, and when they dropped into their dub and reggae grooves, I felt it coming from a sound system for the first time – that bass just penetrated my chest and I was hooked!
MV: Aside from the deep drum and bass that provides the backbone of your music, there are experimental, ambient and ethnological and tribal elements that create an intricate web of sound and music. How do you weave all of these seemingly disparate elements together and what ultimately are you seeking to create?
DG: Well, the quickest answer I can give is to remind you that my label is called Destroy All Concepts – for me it’s about tearing down boundaries and pushing the envelope to create something that is original and fresh. I have never been one to fit things in a box – if you can’t challenge people a little, then what’s the point?
ON ARTISTIC APPROACH/MESSAGE
MV: Touching upon your chosen artistic name, Dub Gabriel. I interpret that as a sort of messenger of dub, if the biblical definition of Gabriel is taken into consideration. Are you a messenger of dub and beyond and if so, what would the message be?
DG: I am honored that you dug so deep into the underlying concept of my name but, I am not nor do I want to be the messenger of anything. I find that it’s always better to be the student than the teacher. The main reason I chose the name Dub Gabriel is that when I first started 15 years ago, everyone was DJ this or DJ that, and the last thing I wanted to do was to follow that trend. I was already experimenting in my DJ sets by incorporating guitar pedals and multiple turntables, so I chose Dub because it was essentially what I was trying to do in my live performances – and Gabriel, well, that is actually my birth name. But, I kinda like your take on it better so maybe I’ll use that one in my next interview!
MV: How does your music reflect your larger philosophy and politics?
DG: There is no separation for me between music, philosophy and politics. They are all part of my genetic makeup and to deny any one of them would be inauthentic to my art.
MV: Do you want your music to be transformative, to educate people and to expand their ideas of sound? What do you want people to leave with after they’ve experienced your music?
DG: In some ways I like to view my music like a riddle or a code. If you figure it out, then you get it but what you get may or may not be a certain philosophy or answer, it might just be a vibe. Really the two things I shoot for in my music are firstly, simple enjoyment; and secondly, to also challenge the listener a bit. I find that it’s always good to have a little twist in it to make people scratch their heads a bit.
MV: You now reside in San Francisco, how does living there work for you as opposed to New York City? It seems like it would be more conducive to experimentation and exploration, whereas New York City now seems more upfront and direct.
DG: Well, I loved my time in New York and I do miss my friends and music community there. I was there for 12 years and it will always be a home to me. I left NY in 2005 and moved to Berlin, it was post 9/11 NY, Bush had won a second election and I just felt like NY was dead and that it was time to move on. Berlin to me was like Brooklyn used to be, I had been going back and forth since 2002 and it still is my home base when in Europe. Anyway, I spent a year and a half in Berlin and when my visa expired, I moved back to NY. But it turned out that I was over the NY rhythm, always just scraping by and paying too much rent for shitty flats. I decided I would much rather spend 2 hours eating meals with friends at a café than the usual NY 20 minute dash with everyone checking their iPhone every 2 minutes. I was just hitting a different stage in my life – I wanted to take more time to really develop my craft and SF was the only place in the States that I could think about living in besides NY. My girlfriend at the time, now my wife, is from here and it just worked out. I dig on it, my life is more in balance out here and that helps me grow artistically too.
MV: Much of your music incorporates instruments of the Middle East and Africa. How do you approach this?
DG: In the early days when I was just discovering those kinds of music it was a pretty radical concept to sample their sounds and mash them up with dub, hip hop, drum & bass and other beats. Over the years I then started to work more directly in collaboration with musicians from the Middle East, India and Africa. These days though, that side of my music has more been dedicated to my work with Bachir Attar & The Master Musicians of Jajouka and the collaborative project we have called Jajouka Soundsystem
MV: Is it your desire to create a sound that is both organic and electronic?
DG: It definitely comes off like I am striving for that balance and to a certain point I am but, the electronic component comes more from the fact that those are the tools I have to work with. But I definitely make an effort to put that organic element into all my music, to breathe some life into a mix and give it some soul. The problem we have today is that we have too much good quality software at our disposal and things become too pristine and precise. Whereas in the old days I would say I spent most of my time trying to make things sounds clean, I now spend more of my time trying to destroy the sounds – you have to bring that chaos element into a mix. That is why I never like to do things 100% in one program or in the box, it’s important to use an analog synth, a tape delay or some other kind of noisemaker that can add a little looseness to your music and give it a more human feel.
MV: Your music is infused with messages, both in their song titles and lyrics. Clearly you have both personal and political messages to deliver with your music.
DG: Well, like I was saying before, there is no separation between my music and the rest of me, everything is connected. It doesn’t matter if it’s my music, posting something on Facebook or cooking a meal, everything I represent is honest and from the heart. I quit a working day jobs 12 years ago and totally dedicated my life and lifestyle to always be a true expression of who I am. So if I’m being political, philosophical, or just being a smart ass, it is all part of me and it comes out in everything I do. It’s about just letting things flow in every aspect of my life. So I’m really not trying to deliver people a message as much as just making my statement and letting you pull from it what you want. I like to present questions more than answers. MV: There is both a calmness and an intense chaotic energy to your music, it runs the full spectrum of sonic experience. How do you reconcile what seems like opposing sounds?
DG: All of creation is based on opposing or contrasting forces: life/death, man/woman, war/peace – you cannot have one without the other. That is why the best comedians are usually the ones who have suffered the worst. It is the ultimate irony and I do like to represent those things with my music. I love to work with instruments like they’ve been playing in Jajouka for hundreds of years and reinterpreting them using Ableton Live and the APC 40. I also like mixing sounds of beauty with more challenging sounds to create something totally new for people to hear.
MV: You’re brought your sound, utilizing an APC40, to a wide range of clubs and venues including Twilo, Kush, Halcyon, Galapagos and points across the globe such as a headlining set at Germany’s legendary Fusion Festival, two tours of China, Canada’s Shambhala Music Festival and regular guest spots at François K’s “Deep Space” night at Cielo in NYC. Impressive to say the least! How have you seen the reception to your music evolve and grow? Are people more in tune with your approach now and what barriers do you feel have to be overcome to truly connect with your audience so it’s not just entertainment?
DG: Some of those clubs you mentioned were before the APC40 existed, and back then I was spinning records. I love vinyl and love to DJ with it but, you can only take things so far with it and I have always been driven to be more live and interactive in my sets. More than any DJ’s, my heroes are people like King Tubby and Lee Perry. As I’ve mentioned earlier, I entered into DJ’ing after many years as a bass player, so when it came to beat-matching vinyl, it came naturally to me as I was very used to locking in the groove with the band. But now with tools like Ableton Live and the Akai APC40, I can do now what I’ve always wanted to do, which is to create my own hybrid that bridges DJ’ing with live electronic and live studio style dubbing. We keep hearing stories these days about the biggest name DJ’s who just play pre-recorded sets and fist-pump the whole time… Well, that is the complete opposite of what I’m about – not only is it boring to for the crowd but, it’s boring for me as a performer too. I want to bring a live feel to the electronic genre and not just put out the same old set every time I play. Years ago I would gig out using my Akai MPC4000 and people were so much more engaged seeing someone using it live, even though they didn’t necessarily know what was going on. Crowds these days are much more technologically aware, and since I’ve started to gig using the APC40, people know that I am not just using Serato or Traktor, but doing something way more involved. Now at my shows I have a great connection with the people that are surrounding the DJ booth or right front of the stage, they are usually hardcore music lovers and I feed off of them just as much as they do off of me. MV: Since you’ve traveled the world with your music, do you see it as a healing, uniting and educating force? How do American audiences respond to what you’re doing as opposed to other parts of the world?
DG: Music has always been a healer, It doesn’t matter if it’s mine or someone else’s, I have a real emotional connection with music and I think the first step in making great music is being a fan of others, so it all works in cycles. As far as the response to my music in America vs. other parts of the world, well, sadly America has always been more difficult. Up until just the last few years there really weren’t that many venues in the States for what I do – one positive aspect of the dubstep explosion is that it has helped build more opportunities for touring in the US. But Americans need to fit music into boxes in order to understand them, which is in contrast to other countries I tour in – even if they don’t know what it is at first, they are more open to experiencing new things. I think America is slowly coming around but people here have a tendency to take the dub element out of electronic music, which is obviously what I love about it. When jungle and drum & bass came out, it was definitely rooted in sound system culture, but once it came to America, the American producers took that element out of it. The same with dubstep, when it first came out of the UK, it was heavily influenced by dub, but when the American producers took it mainstream, all the dub was replaced with bad top 40 elements. It isn’t always bad for these crossovers to happen, unless it kills off everything, as it can expand people’s horizons and bring them together. In my case if it wasn’t for The Clash, I’m not sure I would ever have discovered dub, and as a result, dug deeper and found out about Mikey Dread. Or if Bill Laswell had never produced the P.i.L. album or if Adrian Sherwood hadn’t remixed Neubaten… You will always have a base of people who will dig deeper instead of chasing every trend and those are the people that I am interested in
BEYOND
MV: In addition to your output as an artist, you also run Destroy All Concepts label. What is its mission and what are some of the other artists represented by the label?
DG: I originally started d/a/c primarily as a vehicle for my projects that didn’t necessarily fit on other labels. But now with this upcoming release I have switched things around and will be focusing the majority of my output on Destroy All Concepts while still working with other labels for specific projects. As far as our mission, the name really says it all and to date we have released my collaborations with people like Michael Stipe of REM, Yo Majesty!, 77Klash and more. But having done all the hard work in setting things up properly means that we also have the infrastructure support other artists we care about so we’ve been able to release standalone projects by The Master Musicians of Jajouka, DJ Kiva and Other Weapons (Process Rebel).
MV: What can we expect from Dub Gabriel now with the new recording released?
DG: Well, the music is yet to be released but now that the Kickstarter is over, we are working away on the final stages leading up to it’s release. I suppose now would be a good time to mention that the new album will be called “Raggabass Resistance” and it was just mastered in London by the legendary Kevin Metcalfe who has mastered probably half my record collection, everyone from Brian Eno to King Tubby. We are looking at a full commercial release in early Spring 2013 (the Kickstarter folks will get it in February) and once it’s out, my focus will be on pushing the raggabass sound in every way I can. There are a series of record release parties in the works for the US and I will also be touring internationally to support it. 2013 will also see the release of remix album featuring remixes by Jack Dangers, Liquid Stranger, Subatomic Sound System and others TBA and I will be releasing my first Dub Gabriel Loop Library for all the global bass producers out there.
Tom Gilroy, Michael Stip, Dub Gabriel
Interview by J.C. Tripp, MundoVibe Editor. Conducted via e-mail, November 2012
Sarah Linhares is a passionate and eclectic singer, songwriter and performer. She began her love affair with music at an early age through singing in her church choir. Since then, her unique musical style has been shaped by an obsession with electronic music, singing in a multitude of gospel choirs, performing and dancing to Afro-Brazilian Samba, touring and recording in Venezuela, and being selected to the Red Bull Music Academy in 2007.
This Portuguese-Irish Montrealer writes unique ‘Future Soul’ songs that enticingly blend soulful melodies with variations in electronic music and lush soundscapes. Sarah released her impressive debut record, Messages From The Future, on Public Transit Recordings late 2011. One of her songs ‘Step Up’ was featured on iTUNES JAPAN’s mainpage as the ‘single of the week’ and was downloaded 52 000 times in one week! Her album has received tremendous support online and from a multitude of stellar radio shows all over the world including Gilles Peterson on BBC radio 1. Nu-Soul Magazine selected ‘Other Side’ as part of the editor’s pick of Top 25 Tracks of 2011.
Onstage Sarah’s energy is infectious whether she’s performing with her 3-piece band or solo with her loop pedal, beats and visuals. Sarah’s performance highlights include opening at the NuJazz Festival for King Britt, Toronto’s Manifesto Festival, opening with Moonstarr at Mutek Festival for Carl Craig, performing with Soltribe at Pop Montreal, opening for Mount Kimbie, Festival Francofolies, and Festival Nuits D’Afrique.
Sarah has been busy in 2012 with her full length debut “Messages From the Future” (PTR Records). MFTF brings you a blend of Sarahʼs fresh soulful vocals and gospel-inspired harmonies with dirty electronic beats, heavy synthesizers, thick bass-lines, and 8-bit cosmic dust. The record features collaborations with several talented producers / musicians including Moonstarr, Kenlo Craqnuques, Sikh Knowledge, Think Twice, Aklimatize, Camplaix, celebrated pianist David Ryshpan, super bassist Mark Haynes, drummer Anthony Pageot and vocalists Wayne Tennant and IamBlackgirl. Inspiration for MFTF was born in the unlikeliest of places, namely the 1984 film The Terminator. In the movie Sarah (Connor) is given a message from the future explaining that she will have to be stronger than she ever imagined possible in order to get through the darkness and come out the other side. Only then can her future self exist. This concept inspired Sarah’s own personal and creative journey from living in the past to overcoming and evolving into her future self, the passionate artist she is today.
Sarah also travelled to Philippines and Portugal tour and record. MundoVibe’s John C. Tripp interview Sarah just as the new year was beginning.
Sarah, big congratulations on your first full-length recording, “Messages From the Future”, which has received tremendous praise for its soulfulness and vocal depth, matched with seriously heavy beats and electronics. This seems like a perfect title for this sort of record, can you tell us about the overall concept behind the record?
I read that the inspiration for “Messages From The Future” was the film The Terminator. How did this film’s message, of a person coming back from the future with a message inspire this record — how did you take that message and turn it into music?
Just as I made the decision to produce a full-length record, I ended up watching The Terminator again (the 1984 original version). At that moment in my life I was struggling and somewhat stuck living with some difficult emotional burdens. While watching the film, I received a message that would inspire the title of the record and the direction of my personal exploration while writing it. I was immensely inspired by Sarah Connor’s character who was given a message from the future telling her that she needed to be stronger than she even imagined possible in order to get through the darkness so her future son (or self) could exist. I started to imagine the wisdom and knowledge that I needed to know NOW in order to become my future evolved self, in order to get through this difficult moment and come out the other side stronger, capable of producing this first record, and ultimately overcoming what was holding me back.
“Messages From The Future” was well worth the wait and has a very futuristic sound, one that hasn’t yet hit the mainstream. Your sound tends to lean toward heavy rhythms, without putting labels on your music, how would you describe it to those not “in the scene”?
I like to call my sound ‘Future Soul’. I think it’s the best way to categorize the eclectic blend of sounds found on the record. It was mostly electronically produced with heavy synthesizers, electronic samples, dirty bass lines, and 8 bit effects. My version of FS is a contemporary exploration of Soulful music with varied influences such as UK electronic beats along with Hip Hop, Dancehall vibes, and Brazilian inflections. My vocal styling is greatly inspired by Soul, Gospel, Jazz, R&B, Bossa Nova, and even Pop and the total emotional release that is characteristic of some of those genres. Also, I love the word Future. It means endless possibilities and a place where anything can be created out of nothing or everything. Ironically it’s also a nostalgic word for me, as I grew up imagining the Future inspired by Science Fiction fantasies.
“Messages From The Future” was produced over a period of a couple of years, seeing you collaborate with talented producers such as Moonstarr, Sikh Knowledge, Think Twice, Kenlo and Camplaix, and musicians such as celebrated pianist David Ryshpan and bassist Mark Haynes. How did you manage working with so many producers and maintain a consistency of sound and concept with the record?
I worked with so many producers over several years because I didn’t have a band or one producer to work with. I wanted to explore a variety of sounds and work with a variety of people. I realized that I had a wealth of production skills and musicianship within reach, since I knew all these talented guys personally and was friends with them. I also greatly respected them musically and could call upon each of them to help out with my creative vision. So that’s what I did. I asked all of them to send me beats and musical ideas and they did. They sent me amazing demos that I was so excited to hear and collaborate on. Then we’d mostly go back and forth online with ideas on how to complete the songs. This process took a couple years because life happens and apparently music takes time to make! The people I reached out to all seem to have somewhat similar music influences even if their sounds are slightly different. Perhaps that’s the common link between us all. We all possess a passion for damn good music, for neck breaking beats that take you there, you know?
What were the challenges in working with more than one producer? Was it more technical or creative?
The major challenge was coordinating with so many people who all have lives and other projects on the go. That’s why the record took so long to produce. I had to work with people’s schedules and coordinate back and forth creative exchanges on totally different timelines. You can’t force creativity. It comes with dedication and when the time is right. It was frustrating at certain moments during the process, because I just wanted to finish and get it out there. But such is life, things happen when they are meant to.
This record reminds me of Clara Hill’s “All I Can Provide” in which she collaborated with a different producer on almost every track. It’s kind of rare though, usually it’s the producer working with a range of vocalists. How did you come to this approach?
It is true that normally a producer chooses to work with a bunch of vocalists. I think this happens because the producer is most likely spearheading the entire project and in need of some vocal variety to take his instrumentals to another level. You have to be pretty driven to complete an album so you have to want it badly. This approach seemed to be my only option when I made the decision to make a full-length record, since I had no band or no one producer that I shared an identical vision with. I also have such an eclectic variety of tastes and I wanted to explore all of them…cosmic beats inspired by Dilla and Hip Hop, Broken Beat, UK inspired Electronic, Brazilian stuff, Dancehall, etc. My selection of producers and musicians really does reflect them all!
There is both a toughness and fragility to a lot of your songs, the beats and delivery are quite forward, yet the lyrics are often about being vulnerable or dealing with relations. Your wrote all of the lyrics, what was the emotional place you were coming from in writing these songs?
These songs are incredibly personal and reflect a profound cathartic moment in my life. I wrote a lot of them as I was overcoming the ‘dark night of the soul’. I used the inspiration of messages coming from my future evolved self to help me surpass a difficult past that I had lived with for a long time. The struggles that I faced while writing are certainly not unique. I think many people suffer through the same types of things but mostly try to keep it hidden. I had been doing just that and it wasn’t working for me. I came to realize that I had no choice but to honestly express myself in order to grow. Although it left me feeling vulnerable, this release allowed me to build strength and confidence in a monumental way. I needed to share it in order to let it go. My determination to overcome was unstoppable. I feel like when I began writing these songs I was a girl and now I’m a woman. That’s why this album is so special for me because not only did I produce my first full length, I also used it as my therapy, my healing, and a way to liberate me from the past. By putting this baby out into the world I freed myself.
You have a very soulful voice that reflects your background in gospel as a child, as well as a latin flavor. How did your experiences with music early on inspire and shape you?
I began singing in my church choir as a child and then continued to do so for a very long time throughout many different gospel choirs in Montreal. I think I was drawn to Gospel and Soulful music because I could be a part of something that accepted and allowed me to express pain openly and declare with faith, hope for a better and brighter future, and then celebrate it once it arrived. I believe the soul in my voice comes from my life’s experience of extreme and passionate angst. It’s one way that I can express and release my deep sadness and then joyfully celebrate the freedom of releasing it. I’ve always identified with expressing extreme emotions through music and dance. I’m also very moved and drawn to Fado, Mornas (Portuguese and Cabo Verdean Blues) and Brazilian Samba. All of which express profound sadness and then celebrate the joy of release and freedom. I also greatly identify with Latin music as it is exudes passions and extreme emotions that cannot be contained. Although I am much more tame now, my passionate and overly emotional nature has gotten me into a lot of trouble in the past, so I think dancing and singing is a way of releasing it in a healthy way.
You are half Portuguese and half Irish, so clearly there is a strong musical culture that you must have grown up with. What did you grow up listening to and what were your experiences with music?
One thing that my family truly instilled in us was a love of music. We would not only listen to it, we would live through it. I will forever be grateful for this. Both sides of my family are extremely passionate and emotional in different ways. My Portuguese mother had me listening to Fado, Mornas from Cabo Verde, Bossa Nova, traditional folk music from Madeira, and Lusophone African music. My Irish Canadian father was extremely passionate about Italian Pop Rock so I grew up listening to a lot of that, a lot of Classical music, Opera, and Celtic Music. A major album that marked my early musical education was Ennio Morricone’s soundtrack to the feature film, The Mission. I have memories of listening to it on the stairwell for hours and being absolutely enchanted with my imagination and the power that the music evoked in my emotional life. On my own I started getting into Pop music, Oldies, Blues, Hip Hop, R&B, and then later UK Jungle, D&B, Downtempo, Broken Beat, 2 Step and all the exciting variations in electronic music.
Additionally, you grew up in Montreal, a very cultural and musical city. How has Montreal’s culture shaped who you are?
Montreal is an incredible city to live in (during Spring, Summer, and Fall that is). It lives and breeds Culture, Art, and Music. There are so many interesting people here scheming and dreaming. Everyone is seemingly an artist aspiring to conquer a piece of the pie with vivid imaginations. It has been absolutely amazing to be inspired by all the musical talent this city holds over the last 14 years. I am truly a Montrealer now. It is my home and my life is simple but ideal. I am happy and I live a good life. I eat well, I write songs, I sing, I dance, I perform, I relax, I enjoy the city with great people. However, the winters are devastatingly brutal, at first a creative hibernation period, but then end up wearing you down to the bone. That’s why I always try to leave in the winter for some tropical and sunny destination.
Have you always been a singer? Was it something you knew you wanted to do?
The first time I saw the movie Annie I knew I wanted to perform, but didn’t know how considering how shy I was. I started singing when I was around 8 years old in the church choir. I was painfully shy but longed to gain the confidence to do a solo, one day. Then in high school when Dee-Lite burst out on the scene I was reminded that I wanted to do what she did. After moving to Montreal and singing in a handful of gospel choirs my confidence grew. It took me years of singing in groups and in my shower before I finally decided, “I’m gonna do this for real!” The first time I performed solo was in 1999 when I grabbed the mic at the local Drum & Bass night and started rhyming over the beats and then suddenly burst into song. It was one of the greatest thrills I had ever experienced. Back then this was a big deal cause I was the first girl to do it at this male dominated night. That’s where my thirst for singing began in a real way. But years and years were to pass before I once again got up the courage. In 2002 I wrote and recorded a song with DJ Mana for his self-produced record. That was my first time recording and being paid for making music. It was the best $100 I had ever made in my life! We did a couple shows and then I went silent for another several years while struggling through some things. At the same time I became obsessed with Samba dancing and percussion and started performing professionally. I almost lost the drive to do music until I joined Soltribe and fled to Venezuela to record an album and tour with local musicians. That trip changed my life. Once again, I knew that’s what I wanted to do. I was living the dream, performing in the tropics during winter, recording, and living it up. But then we broke up. (The producer had been my boyfriend AND my band mate) And my musical and personal life was left in shambles. I was about to give up on music for good when a very close friend convinced me to apply to the Red Bull Music Academy. I resisted, stating they would never pick me, but finally just spent the time and applied. To my amazement they picked me! I was stunned and was reminded once again to not give up on music. The response was incredible and the inspiration kept me going…fast forward through a couple years of writing the album and struggling and here we are…2012. We’re finally living in the future and ALL I want to do is make music and travel, and perform, and just keep growing and getting better at my craft. Finally, I’m ready for it!
Who were some of the role models or inspirations in your musical development?
Truly, I have hundreds of role models and inspirations. Some of my major influences are Dee-Lite, Sade, Bjork, Lauren Hill, Aretha Franklin, Etta James, Billie Holiday, Ella Fitzgerald, Jill Scott, Sinead O’connor, Nelly Furtado, Cesaria Evora, Ennio Morricone, Beady Belle, Feist, Omar, Alicia Keys, Massive Attack, Portishead, Judy Mowatt, Eurythmics, Elis Regina, Erykah Badu, Lhasa De Sela, Nicolette, Amy Winehouse, Goldie, Lamb, Shy FX, Kruder & Dorfmeister, Depeche Mode, Mobie, Madonna, Prince, Tricky, Radiohead, Soul II Soul, Jay Dilla, Bob Marley, Jimmy Hendrix, The Doors, The Police, Flying Lotus, Mos Def, Tribe Called Quest, Red Hot Chili Peppers, Ms Dynamite, Celia Cruz, Hector Lavoe, Mark de Clive Lowe & Bembe Segue, Michael Jackson, Kelis, Flora Purim, Oscar De Leon, D’Angelo, Amalia ( Fado singer ) , Amalia Rodrigues, Justin Timberlake, Jeremy Ellis, Mariza, Bill Withers, Fiona Apple, Ben Harper, Jamie Lidell, Turbulence, Buju Banton, Jorge Ben, Sidestepper, Herbert, and so many more!
You spent some time in Venezuela in 2006 in an artist residency at a mountainside studio and then recorded the ‘Pura Vida’ EP by Soltribe, which has a strong latin flavor. How did this come about and what was life in Venezuela like? Would you ever want to live in, say, Brazil and do something similar?
My experience in Venezuela was absolutely magical in many ways and incredibly difficult in others. I went for four months to escape some difficult emotional moments and to live out the fantasy life of my dreams, which was to make music, record, and perform with my Venezuelan boyfriend (at the time), with an amazing local band Tumbador, and a Montreal singer Wayne Tennant, who became a dear friend. I did just that. Mixing love and music in Venezuela produced some of the BEST and WORST of times, but overall only goodness came out of it. I learned so much and did more than I ever had musically in my life. I fell deeply in love with Venezuelan life and culture. I fully embraced my passionate Latin tendencies and my South American identity, and was even called the Latina del Norte because people there thought I was Latina. It was a very special moment and I still dream about being there sometimes. We stayed in a mansion in the Andes Mountains and worked on music all day and then partied all night. Then when we were ready, we flew to Isla Marguarita to perform a number of shows during Carnaval. It was like living in a dream. I absolutely would love to spend time in Brazil and work on music there and perform. It’s one of my top musical destinations and I’ll most likely get over there next winter to do just that!
You seem to have a following in Japan since you appeared on 2010’s Cosmopolyphonic label compilation with Japanese beat maestro mfp in 2010 and then had a very popular single, ‘Step Up’, on iTunes in Japan. Any plans of touring there or working with some Japanese producers?
I love Japan even though I’ve never been! I have a deep respect and admiration for Japanese culture and truly hope to work with more Japanese talents this year. There are many amazing producers and musicians there and luckily some of them are my friends. I was almost going this winter but I guess it’s not the right time. I will definitely make my way over there in the near future. The Japanese music market is so vibrant and ready to consume. I really want to tap more into that.
You were also a participant in the 2007 Red Bull Music Academy in Toronto. Tell us about this experience? How did it impact your career and music?
Attending RBMA was a magical experience. I was just about to give up making music since my band had just broken up after touring / recording in Venezuela and then I was selected to participate. It was a saving grace. It was so inspiring to be around so many creative, hungry, and talented up and coming and established musicians, singers, and producers. Meeting Mulatu Astake was such a thrill! He listened to my song and told me to keep singing cause I was onto something good. What a boost! I recorded with Om’mas Keith from SA-RA, which was also really amazing. I’m grateful for connecting with so many talents all over the world. Especially, working with my Portuguese friend Filipe Campos AKA Camplaix who produced two tracks on the record and another good friend David Rysphan who’s also on the record and who performs in my band in Montreal. RBMA inspired me to push towards working on a full length and gave me an essential confidence boost when I needed it most. I am so pleased to forever be connected to this MAD talented group of people all over the globe. I have immense love and respect for them.
Would you ever consider a move to New York City to pursue more opportunities with your music or do you feel that the place isn’t as important anymore?
I would love to explore NYC. I haven’t been since I was 15 actually! I loved it then so imagine how much I’d love it now. Actually, I was just talking to someone about coming down to do a show. I’ll definitely fit it into 2012. Once I get down there, I hear I might fall in love with the place. Apparently it’s a concrete jungle where dreams are made. We shall see!
You’ve worked closely with Moonstarr and his PTR records. How did you first connect with him and how has your relationship with him influenced your sound?
I first heard his music and was immediately impressed then I met him through a friend and ended up working for him and PTR doing research, PR, and bookings for other artists on the label. It brought us closer together. I worked out of his house and started recording in his studio…and now he’s family. I actually wanted to work on a full length with him (cause I am a HUGE fan of his music and talent) but he’s a VERY busy man and couldn’t commit to producing, mixing, and mastering an entire record. However, he’s been monumental in producing MFTF and has definitely left his signature sound all over it. Not only did he produce three songs, oversee the entire project, mix and master the album, BUT he also gave me much encouragement and support. I truly couldn’t have done it without him!
How do you go about composing a song? What is the initial “spark” that sets it off?
It really depends and is unique to every song. Inspiration can seemingly come from anything at any time. Sometimes I start singing melodies out of the blue and record them as fast as I can so I can further develop them into songs. Sometimes lyrics float through my mind, seemingly out of nowhere and I have to run to write them down. Sometimes I’ll be reading something and I’ll be inspired by a concept that will instigate bursting into song about it. I have woken up from dreams where melodies come to me and I’ll record them into my phone with my eyes closed at 5am. Other times I’ll hear an instrumental and instantly be inspired to sing verses or a hook. I’ll record them and then edit out the best bits and start building from there. I just keep adding and editing out parts until I have a solid demo before I’ll do an entire recording session to rerecord it ‘for real’. These processes can take anywhere from one day to several months depending on how everything falls into place. I absolutely love writing songs. It’s one thing I get completely absorbed in and forget about everything else. I find it quite meditative and it helps me be completely present in the moment.
How do you then work your vocals into a track? Is there any live improvisation that is part of the process?
Absolutely! My favorite moment when collaborating with someone is the first time I hear the instrumental demo and I’m instantly inspired by it. Melodies and words just come pouring out of me. Sometimes the words don’t make sense and sometimes they do. Sometimes it’s the melody that I like sometimes it’s the chorus. Often I have to scramble to turn on Logic or my phone to record my ideas right away no matter if I’m walking down the street or in my bed at 1am. That’s usually when some of the best stuff comes out in the first listen / first creation improvisation session. I might record a couple lines of variations and then go back to it with fresh ears the next day and decide which bits are the best. Then I build it up and add back vocals and harmonies. Sometimes I get so carried away that I am left with 12 vocal layers playing at once. It’s all very random and exciting!
You perform live quite a bit, what is your show like? How do you turn on the heat and get the crowd going?
I actually wish I was performing more! I absolutely love it. I find it a fascinating experience because every situation is different and I’m always different too. Whatever the circumstances, I enjoy the rush of pushing myself to rise to the occasion and give my best performance at that moment in time, whether there’s tons of people or barely anyone, whether I’m tired, or whether there’s a blizzard outside. These days I perform in one of two ways. I perform with a stellar 3-piece band made up of David Ryshpan on keys and synth, Mark Haynes on bass, and Anthony Pageot on drums, along with my loop pedal and samples. The energy we have together is amazing. The guys are crazy talented and play really well together. I also perform solo with my laptop, loop pedal, beats, drum samples, and visuals. Whichever way I perform, I feel like I’m truly sharing my passion with the audience. I give a ton of energy. I also love to dance as part of my show. I incorporate variations in Latin and Brazilian dance which a lot of people don’t expect. The dance that I do is an expression of joy, so I’m sure people feel that.
With technology as it is, there is so much more ease at making music. But the challenges of making a living at it seem more daunting than ever. It seems that a lot of people now assume music should be free, yet artists struggle. What keeps you going under these circumstances, what drives you?
In 2010 I wrote a love song to technology called Digital Love, which was released in Japan. I am so grateful for what technology allows me to do in this day and age but along with that comes a darker side, the endless possibilities, struggling to make a living, and getting lost in the middle of it all.
It’s so hard to know how to navigate in this crazy business, especially now. It does seem daunting but I have faith that I’ll be where I need to be at exactly the right moment. Any second now someone will call and want to use one of my songs in a Mac commercial, right? Haha! I am not driven by money but luckily money always comes to me. I was once told that because of my charming personality, people will believe in my passion projects so much that they will give me money and help me get to where I need to. Honestly, it’s been happening and I only for see it becoming more poignant. Even when I feel like nothing is happening the seeds of my hard work are being sown in places I never dreamed they would be. I simply have no choice but to carry on and keep working on improving myself personally and musically. I am striving to write a masterful song and sing my heart out to the world. I don’t know where I’m going but I trust I’ll get there.
It’s a whole new year and “Messages From The Future” hasn’t been out that long. What can we expect in 2012 from Sarah Linhares? Any tours in the works or remixes to look forward to? What will your next project be? Any collaborations on the horizon?
2012 is a BIG year for me musically and I’m just getting started. I’m working on a ton of amazing things right now. I have a handful of collaborations that will be released in 2012 such as tracks with UK’s BUG, Portugal’s DJ Ride, Montreal’s Lotus, Sikh Knowledge, Vox Sambou from Nomadic Massive, and so many more. I also look forward to collaborating with King Britt whom I met in late 2011 at a show that we both performed at. I have plans to collaborate with Altered Natives, Montreal’s House guru Jo Jo Flores, Miguel Graça, Toronto’s DJ Catalist and more…
At the same time I have just received a grant to produce three songs for a new project called Future Falcon, which is a collaboration with up and coming Montreal producer Shawn Laptiste. Our sound is slightly 80’s throwback with bass heavy beats, but is still Future Soul with a potential crossover Pop appeal while still keeping it real. We have already begun writing the material and will release an EP later in 2012.
Also, I’m thrilled to announce that I’ll be traveling in the Philippines for several weeks in Feb / March to write and reflect and will most likely be performing in Manila. Then I’m off to Lisbon, Portugal end of March / April to perform several shows solo and with local musicians. I will be working in the studio with some amazing talents (Camplaix, Syn, DJ Ride, and Mike Stellar). I’m SO excited about that trip and think incredible things will happen because of it. Keep an eye out for that!
I also plan on continuing to perform as much as possible and get my name out there and just keep pushing it. I just want to make music and get better and better doing it. I still have to make a masterpiece album like SBTRKT’s latest. Time will tell.
Well Sarah, thanks so much for spending the time to answer our questions, we expect big things for you this year. Any parting words for your fans out there?
Dub and reggae were never meant to be entertainment, it’s a weapon without compromise –Lister Hewan-Lowe
From his self-built and roots-minded hillside home and studio in Southwest France, Frédéric Luneau, aka Fredread constructs deep, mindful reggae that reaches an international audience with its powerful message.With Jamaican roots-reggae and dub roots as his inspiration, Fredread creates music with a positive “outernational” message backed by a powerful rhythm section, sharp skanking guitars, twinkling horns and flute, and heavy dub vibes.
Over the years Fredread’s recipe of tradition and modernity backed by strong Rasta convictions has established Webcam Wifi and his Tube Dub Sound Records as respected messengers of reggae’s true purpose: to entertain, unite and educate. With 25 years of underground musical activism, Fredread is now embarking on a new level of promotion and activisim with the second Webcam WiFi album “Feeding My Faith”, the 15th release on Tube Dub Sound Records. “Feeding My Faith” comes after the highly acclaimed album “Livity is My Temple” which was acknowledged by the international dub scene where singers such as Horace Martin, Joseph Cotton, Dan I, Parvez, Madu Messenger appear.
Once more, the riddims admirably feature singers from various horizons: From El Fata’s (born Niger and living in London) rub a dub to Kiko (singer of No More Babylon), from Lyrical Benjie’s mysticism to Ras Zacharri’s Jamaican singjay, the coming together of 3 Bulgarians singers from Roots Rocket crew Zafayah, Jahmmi Youth & Sen I to Faye Houston (singer in the English band Resonators produced by Manasseh) from the German Mighty Howard (Dubmatix / Irie Ites Music Germany) to the Jamaican veteran Trevor Junior, all together contribute towards the excellence of this new album.
Since 2004, Fredread has produced numerous riddims and singers such as Kenny Knots, Earl Sixteen, Anthony John, Carlton Livingston, Tony Tuff, Ranking Joe, Nya Azania, Roberto Sanchez, Jah Marnyah, Ranking Trevor, Trevor Junior and many more. WEBCAM HI-FI represents over 200 gigs worldwide, of course in France but also Mexico, England, Finland, Italy, Spain, Bulgaria, Romania, Serbia, Croatia, Macedonia, Portugal, Holland, Switzerland alongside King Shiloh, Mungo’s hi-fi, Jah Rej from Jah Works, Kanka, Junior Cony, Jonah Dan, Dub Addict, Brain Damage, Vibronics, Blackboard Jungle, Adrian Sherwood.
Inspired by the work and message from those legendary people such as King Jammy, Soljie Hamilton, Sly & Robbie, Dennis Bovell, Lloyd Bullwackies Barnes, Channel One and Roots Radics, Fredread continues the tradition and sets himself as a defender of the roots, rock, reggae and dub culture along with contemporary current producers such as Dubkasm, Twilight Circus or Lone Ark.
Outernational reggae music & original dub from the hill seen!
MundoVibe: When did you first hear reggae and dub and how did it impress you?
Fredread: I first heard reggae music when I was 15 years old I think. Dub came after. When I was 7 years old my parents offered me toy drums for Christmas. Then I received as a gift a turntable when I was 12 or 13 years old.
I didn’t learn music. I’m a DIY musician and sound engineer.
Reggae was popular when I was a youth I listen to of course Robert Nesta Marley, Burning Spear… even if I grew up in the countryside west south of France. The Clash were like a revelation too. At the end of the 70′s beginning of the 80′s in England punk, rock and reggae music were united fighting against racism and social difficulties. Margaret Thatcher was leading the country.
Roots rock reggae music was real Aswad, Steel pulse, Misty in Roots, The Clash, Stiff little fingers, Ruts DC, Don Letts…The Clash worked with Mickey dread, Lee Perry.
One of my best friends lived in Paris, we often went to sound system sessions and concerts when I visited him. The ’80s were into rub-a-dub and I still like it a lot. The beginning of digital style too, in particular King Jammy in Jamaica and singers like Pato Benton, Macka B in UK.
Reggae was a synonym of social involvement, fighting against injustice, liberty, positive attitude, peace, respect.
My father worked for 15 years in west Africa too. My mum always said to me reggae music and Africa is the link between my father and me. I’ve been to Africa many times and my father was passionate ’bout Africa as I am. Maroons in Jamaica, black people in West Indies generally came from Africa. This history deals with slavery, suffering.
How important is the cultural aspect of reggae and how do you practice it?
Reggae music is really a strong cultural music with a strong message. That’s the difference between many other kind of musics. The message is part of the music. Reggae music is a popular music, created by sufferers, struggling everyday. A total commitment.
I practice this cultural aspect everyday. Ital vegetarian food, the way I live in the countryside, I built my wooden house by myself on a hill, in west south of France. Growing some vegetables, rainwater harvesting, wood heater, etc …. Respect yourself and the others, consciousness, not too much noise and pollution. Communion with nature.
These are my choices I made many years before. Being an actor of my life and not sustaining it.
When I play as WEBCAM HI-FI during live sessions, it’s very important to spread the message too. Education is the key. Reggae music is more than entertainment.
Being honest, friendship, solidarity, these are words of my mouth.
French reggae doesn’t have a lot of recognition. What is the French reggae scene like?
Actually the sound system scene is growing up since something like 5 years. A lot of youths come to dances. It’s more into UK stepper style. A lot of fans coming from the free parties or electro music appreciate these dub sound system events cause of the very heavy sound and bass. Many people produce riddims and release vinyls in this UK digital stepper style. There’s also a very active community coming from French West Indies. On the other hand many French reggae bands sing in French so they are popular in France but really difficult to have an international recognition.
Some bands are really talented according to my opinion like No More Babylon or Tu Shung Peng. They used to back some jamaican artists.
Anyway dub & reggae music is popular in France, there are a lot of big festivals during summer, regular sound system sessions, forums on the web, vinyls distributors, producers.
How did you develop your musical style, what were the influences?
I really love dub & reggae music and in particular dub as it is a special work for a sound engineer. King Jammy, Channel One Studio, Roots Radics, Steven Stanley, Sly & Robbie, Soljie Hamilton, Dennis Bovell, Lloyd Bullwackies Barnes, are some of my influences. But of course too many names to be named! Sound engineers were considered as musicians to build dubs. They used mixing board as an instrument. I follow this way ina traditional style. My work is like a tribute to my favorite period of dub & reggae music between the 70′s and the 80′s. An homage to these people with my personality.
What has been your journey as a musician?
I’m not a great instrumentist! I know how to play a likkle drums, bass, guitar, percussion, keyboards but my job is sound engineer. I started learning it when I was 18 years old. At this period there were no schools to learn this job. So I started buying a 4 tracks tape recorder then a couple of microphones… I was the only one to own this equipment in my area, so I worked a lot to record local bands.
I also played in many different bands before from rock to electro dub. I started playing guitar in a rock band as there was nobody interested into dub & reggae music around me! Then a band called BAD BRAINS that were playing hardcore and reggae with rasta convictions was the second revelation after The Clash. Reggae music was definitively into my heart.
What is your approach to production?
I usually start my riddims with drums, then finding some chords I like. I’ve got a small book where I write my ideas. After I should find an idea for bass… Sometimes with computer for ideas but I always record everyting with live instruments after. I should create many riddims at the beginning to choose those I prefer after. When I’ve done this choice with the riddims I decide to record singers to voice them. Sometimes it’s obvious this riddim will be for this singer.
Horns, pecussions, arrangements are recorded at the end generally.
Finally when everyting is on my hard drive I mix with an analogue mixing console, vintage effects delay, echo, reverb, phaser… Ina traditional style.
Tell us about the vocalists and musicians you collaborate with? What is their impact on your music?
I work with different musicians since years: Ras Martin for example plays sax during recording sessions and live sessions too for a long long time. He’s responsible for horn arrangements. Zigo (Greenyard Records / Dub Inc) plays drums sometimes, Fabio plays trombone, Tooney Roots from I-plant and I-Grow Records plays several instruments. He’s my neighbour now as he also built his house 15 kilometers far from me. Roman Weeding dub lived one year next to me too 4 years before we toured together in Europe 25 shows. Many brothers came on the hill to my recording “huge studio” as I called it with humour. I met them on the road, it’s the result of real friendship.
Concerning vocalists it depends on who’s is touring Europe for Jamaican singers. Sometimes a brotha give mi a call and says for example « Fred ! Ranking Joe is by my studio in UK have you got a riddim and do you want to record a tune ? ». Sometimes I met vocalists around the world when I play live. Sometimes I contact them on internet just because I really apprecilove their voice since years. Sometimes I exchange some studio work with a vocal. There’s no rule. I’m close to many others producers in the world and we are always in contact: Steve Vibronics, Roberto Sanchez Lone Ark… We share the same passion and view ’bout dub & reggae music. It’s a small world!
Is there a local scene where you live? Please describe.
There’s absolutely no local dub & reggae scene where I live ! I live on a hill west south France as I told you. There’s a very small village with 300 inhabitants down my hill. The biggest town is 25000 people, it’s 25 kilometers far from my house ! There are a few pop or rock or blues bands that’s all ! Some youths are into dubstep or electro music.
Reggae is very international, how do you feel about its influence around the world?
Reggae music is outernational of course. It’s amazing how a small island like Jamaica created a so popular music known everywhere in the world. There’s some good reggae music coming from everywhere in the world. I like traveling and I notice that reggae music is a real strong link with everybody. It’s a music with conscious lyrics written by sufferers. In Africa people feel closed to reggae music. Robert Nesta Marley was like an ambassador he popularized reggae everywhere in the world. It’s a nice feeling according to my opinion to talk and hear ’bout reggae music everywhere in the world. I love it.
Is the message of peace and love still strong in reggae?
Of course this message is still strong. It’s one of the most important ting. Reggae music can’t exist without this message. Never give up in this world of disorder and war where a lot of people don’t know their neighbor. It’s a world of individualism and selfishness where money and bizness rule. We should try to find different way of life. Harmony and respect with nature. Personally I try to chose who I want to support when I buy someting for example.
Love is the answer as peace and education. Each one teach one.
Too many lyrics written ’bout it : « Faith can move mountains / Twinkle brothers »…
What is your opinion of the music coming from Jamaica now? Has it lost its soul?
I went to Jamaica 3 years ago for the last time. I love this island it’s a really beautiful place. Really nice people. Reggae is everywhere every time. From rocksteady to dancehall. Veteran singers like Tony Tuff or Trevor Junior I produced do not record a lot of tunes in Kingston. They work with European or USA producers. Some of dem emigrated to USA like Carlton Livingston or to UK like Earl Sixteen. Actually the youths in Jamaica are looking to USA for music. They are more into hip hop and dancehall even if there’s still some cultural rootical producers in Jamaica. Actually Bushman or Luciano for example are really great singers with conscious lyrics. They do not forget what foundations are. Anotha important ting is there’s only one radio Irie FM in Kinsgton and if you want to be popular you should be played by this radio.
Poverty and ghetto life mek some youths looking for success and easy money.
I’ve been to Rebel salute festival organised by Tony Rebel and veteran singers play between 5pm to 1 am like Courtney Melody, Horace Andy, Mykal Rose and then until 8 am it’s all ’bout dancehall stars Vibz Kartel, Elephant Man, Bounty killer.
It’s also very difficult to record some live musicians in Jamaica. Only a few recording studios like Harry J or Tuff Gong record some live riddims with instrumentists. Nowadays computers mek it cheaper. Money is one more time the barrier.
You utilize lyrics on most of your songs. How do these get created, who writes them?
Generally singers write dem lyrics. It’s part of dem job ! I ask for conscious lyrics if necessary. But it happened I wrote some. I wrote « Foundations» for Sista Syreen I produced on my TDSR10 vinyl 12 . I also wrote some for Anna our live session singer. I like it, writing lyrics is not a problem for mi.
Your style of reggae utilizes space, with deep bass and very harmonic vocals. It’s very listenable and appealing. What is your approach to creating this music?
This is roots rock reggae music. Deep bass, harmonic vocals. These are the foundations. Reverb and delay or echo help to create space as panoramic left/right. Arrangements are very important with percussion, melodies to emphasize some parts of the vocals, horns of course.
When the basic riddim is finished I record a singer and then it’s ’bout fineness.
Trying to catch the attention from people listening to the tune. Meking it sounds betta. On an anotha hand I should be careful cause less is more sometimes…
You have 25 years of involvement in reggae, as producer, promoter, activist and record lable owner. What is your motivation?
Dub & Reggae music is my life. I’m still irie to wake up every morning to work by my recording studio. As I do everyting alone there’re so many tings to do with my label TUBE DUB SOUND RECORDS or WEBCAM HI-FI.
Organizing shows, buying flights, giving calls, website, selling vinyls, promotion, artwork, it’s more than creating riddims and recording.
I’ve got no time enough if I would like to do everyting that is on my mind, I would need 2 lives!
I try to live my dreams modestly. You know the life I live is the one I was dreaming ’bout when I was 15 years old so I can’t complain even if the road is a hard road to travel.
I went to the university when I was 18 years old and I’ve got some degrees as social worker and psychology so it’s definitively a choice to be 100% into dub & reggae music. Even if I work as sound engineer for theater, festivals and venues. I mek some mastering and mixing for different producers in my recording studio to earn my life too.
Your record label Tube Dub Sound Records has released a number of highly praised releases. Tell us about the label, who are its main artists and what is its direction?
The main project with TUBE DUB SOUND RECORDS is to release WEBCAM HI-FI productions. DIY and being independent is my way. I collaborated with bredren like I-Plant or Weeding Dub on some releases. Actually Sirhill from Control Tower is helping me to press vinyls and for distribution too. There are 15 references on TUBE DUB SOUND RECORDS vinyl 7, 10, 12, LP and CD. I produced tunes with Kenny Knots, Tena Stelin, Anthony John, Horace Martin, Earl Sixteen, Dan I, Joseph Cotton to name a few. It’s generally productions even if sometimes it could be collaborations. We can exchange services. It’s promotion for them in Europe and in the whole wide world as WEBCAM HI-FI is touring the world. Perhaps a chance to be played on radios and of course by sound systems. Bizness used to work like this in Kingston Jamaica a lot of singers were standing in the queue in front of the recording studios asking for riddims to record a tune.
Where did the name Webcam Hi-Fi originate?
I use the WEBCAM name since a long long time for every project I was working on alone cause I was playing in many different bands. HI-FI was added with sound system. Years before WEBCAM was like an uncommon word someting like an eye on the world. A possibility of joining and seeing people everywhere in the world like a link an idea of unity.
”Feeding my faith” is your second album as Webcam Hi-Fi. Tell us about how this project came together and what the concept is.
« Feeding my faith » is WEBCAM HI-FI second album. Since May 2012 it’s only available as LP limited numbered copies 180Gr heavyweight vinyl and as digital download with 3 bonus tracks. It’s more into 2 steps or rub a dub riddims popularized by Roots Radics. Singers on this album come from different countries we often met them on tour like El Fata and Faye Houston from Resonators in Lonton, Roots Rocket crew in Bulgaria, Mighty Howard cause I mixed for Dubmatix, Lyrical Benjie from Holland is one of my favorite singer in Europe so mystical rasta lyrics, Kiko is my breda from No More Babylon…
Trevor junior from Kingston Jamaica is my link there when I recorded tunes with Tony Tuff. He’s Lacksley Castell regretted young brotha. His hit « I & I time » was on a Lloyd Parks riddim Sly & Robbie played on this release.
It’s a traditional showcase album where every vocal tune comes with his dub. Front cover photo I took it during our tour in Mexico. It’s the result of 2 years. Flute has been played by Mathilde who is Ras Martin (sax) sister, picking and lead guitars by my longtime breda Ben black G…
You tour frequently in Europe, what is touring like for you? What will the tour for “Feeding My Faith” be like?
We will play in two weeks with Israel Vibration then Madrid and Barcelona Spain and the main project will be our east Balkan tour from the 19th november to the 15th of december. It’s a common tour with Glass-X who is into dubstep. It’s 25 shows we will play Slovenia, Hungary, Romania, Bulgaria, Macedonia, Kossovo, Serbia and Croatia.
WEBCAM HI-FI live could be different from DJ set alone to 3 people with Ras martin sax and Anna vocal. Depending on budgets and disponibilities… Since years I played with different MC’s and singers but it’s our actual line up.
Any message to direct foward your fans, new and old?
Biiiiig up Mundovibe seen. Give thanks to Jah for inspiration & guidance. Heartical thanks to the singers and musicians and everybody who support us around the world. Respect to all producers, bands, sound systems and radio presenters who kept this traditional roots rock reggae music alive over decades. Dubbin’ is a must !
It’s been 5 years since South London based duo Kode9 & the Spaceape’s debut album. On this new disc, named after Kode9’s influential 2009 single Black Sun, the intensity and themes of their debut Memories of the future remain, but the delivery is clearer and more rapid, the beats more jagged and restless. Starting as a dense onslaught, Black Sun proceeds to expand and contract its galaxy, sucking you into its orbit, and daring you to come and bathe in the warmth of its toxic glow.
Kode9 and the Spaceape explore an accelerated sonic fiction with this album. Spaceape verbally conjures up world under a Black Sun; his lyrics intimate an unknown time, that resonates strongly with the present, after an unclassified radioactive event has transformed the planet, much of which is now on fire. Spaceape sends radio transmissions from this irradiated, scorched zone. His demeanor has changed. Kode9 has tuned into him on a different frequency.
Through the noise of crackling fires, rise the ominous drums of Black Smoke, an incantation exorcising demons hungover from their first album. Reciting angular fictions of bodily breakdown and mutation (derived from his own experiences during the making of this record), confrontations with death, illicit, destructive love, crashing economies, hypocritical politics, failed revolts, underachieving gods and coded references to cartoon characters from the 1970s, Spaceape balances narrative and abstraction in his densely layered lyrics. On three of the songs, the duo are joined by the yearning backing vocals of Shanghai based singer Cha Cha. She first worked with them on the 2009 single Time Patrol.
Musically, Kode9 uses the album to develop his own innovations and strategies. His neon noir synths sidestep fashionable 8bit novelty and avoid the forced euphoria of many of his contemporaries. The mostly drumless pounding of Promises and Bullet Against Bone are turbo-charged upgrades of the duo’s Bass Fiction micro genre initiated in 2004 by their iconoclastic debut, the Prince cover, Sine of the Dub.
The broken, drone house tracks Green Sun, Love is the Drug and the remake of title track, Black Sun, plus the analog synth work on Otherman inherit in mutated form the melancholy DNA of Memories of the Future and build on the unsettling dancefloor dynamics of the original Black Sun single. Even the astral ambience and dread poetics of Neon Red Sign, glides along on bustling hi-hats and leaning, 2step syncopations despite the gravity of it’s deep bass drops and wobbling sub. Providing moments of breathing space in this torched environment, are 2 beatless instrumentals. Out of the chittering, insectoid rustling and squelches, wavers the electric keys of Hole in the Sky. And the album’s finale is Kryon, Kode9’s collaboration with Flying Lotus, started around 4 years ago. If you have heard Kode9 & Spaceape play live in the last few years you will recognize this epic wall of analog synth. But perhaps the fractured clarity of the album shines through strongest in the spiky funk, skattered snares and intertwined vocal call and response in The Cure or the crunked out rapidfire paradoxes of Am I. The energy is involving and enveloping. The changes in speed and pressure create an exciting ride around the Black Sun.
MundoVibe: I’ve been constantly listening to “Black Sun” and it’s really heavy music. It reflects a lot internally, would you say it’s coming from a deep place, a mental place even though it‘s bass?
Kode9: A lot of the music I make is conceptual somehow, there’s an idea in it. That’s what we try and do, you know we’re always trying to balance stuff that you’d want to listen to with headphones and you’d want to move to. I think more than our first album this does have a bit more dynamic and energy in it. But I’m never so interested in stuff that’s just one function, just for that sake. So, that’s what we’re trying to do.
MundoVibe: You are quoted as calling your music “uneasy listening”, I though that was interesting.
Kode9: Well, it’s not easy listening, I suppose people keep telling me it’s challenging and I don’t know if that’s like a veiled insult or it’s challenging. I enjoy listening to stuff that’s got slightly anomalous elements in it, like a little blotch in a landscape or a hair on the photographic lense. I think our stuff whether it be the kind of synths we use or the melodies, have a curdled sound. I like this idea of the curdled melodies. My mom used to always say “don’t drink fruit juice after you’ve just drunk milk, because it’ll curdle. And actually the idea of pouring pineapple juice into a glass of milk is one kind of accurate way I see my music. It’s like, “these two things really shouldn’t be here. But if you ignore the rule that they shouldn’t be together it actually tastes kind of nice.
MundoVibe: I like that analogy with the cottage cheese (sic).
Kode9: Cottage cheese? That’s an interesting label.
MundoVibe: Anything but dubstep right (laughter).
Kode9: Yeah, curdling.
MundoVibe: For some reason I associate dub music more with the UK than Jamaica, although the connection is obvious. I see you music as a continuum of going back to, say, On-U Sound and Adrian Sherwood. What is your continuum?
Kode9: I think that’s a stronger reference point with our first album, more so than this album because I don’t think there’s a strong presence of dub, even in an upgraded fashion, with this album. You know, we were trying out some different things. I suppose the musical lineage that I put myself in as a DJ come from jungle in particular and right through what I do now which is house, dubstep, grime, etc. As a music listener my interests go back to ‘70s funk, jazz and through hip hop so I think some of those elements have come through in this album. Like we used some of the analogue synths that were used in ‘70s funk and so on.
MundoVibe: To set the tone perhaps?
Kode9: Yeah, those kind of sounds, those kind of frequencies and those kind of raw analogue synthesizer sounds are something I’ve always loved and are deeply psychedelic to me. That’s one of the things that we wanted to do on this album which is very different from the first album.
MundoVibe: So you clearly wanted to take a new direction with this new album.
Kode9: Yeah, I suppose it’s just upgrading, like you upgrade your operating system. We wanted to upgrade our operating system a bit and explore some other avenues that maybe didn’t come quite so easy to us or so naturally. And just keep challenging ourselves.
MundoVibe: I’ve detected a theme throughout it, to me it’s very reflective of the state of the world. There’s a lot of references to faith, religion, politics.
Kode9: You’re right although for us the album takes place in a fictional world which is featured in the artwork. And that fictional world is after some unclassified radioactive event which fucks up the atmosphere and hence your ‘black suns’, ‘green suns’, suns filtered through this toxic atmosphere. And there’s series of social implications of this event with lots of social upheaval, revolutions, sexual relationships have been banned so all intimate relationships take place illicitly. And there’s a lot of themes of bodily mutation and health type themes. All of the population is undergoing these unpredictable bodily mutations because of the radiation. Some groups of the population are trying to resist these mutations, trying to hang onto the humanity as opposed to becoming something other and turn into a monotheistic religion for redemption and salvation. Whereas other groups the mutations are taking them in another direction and they’re not going to resist it, they’re going with it. And how the story ends up is certain groups take this synthetic compound to keep them alive but they don’t try and resist the mutations that are taking place and are disoriented and as we put it, “they remain to bathe under the black sun”. They stay in this fucked up environment instead of trying to escape to some promised land.
So, that’s the kind of narrative and clearly elements of that that resonate with a lot of what’s going on in the world. Particularly there’s one line of Spaceape’s that particularly great that says: “There’s a prophet on every corner who has under achieved.” That really sums up how fucked up most religion, monotheistic religions of the world are.
MundoVibe: So, I guess I did pick up on some of the messages there.
So you see it as an allegory of what’s going on?
Kode9: It’s a work of fiction and like all works of fiction there is going to be some resonance with what’s going on in the world. But the way we do it it’s quite a loose resonance. In other words we try to keep it open to the listener to superimpose their own political ideology. The lyrics are spoken from a number of different perspectives, it’s not just coming from Spaceape. He’s assuming the voices of, and telling the stories of, different characters. We prefer to leave things just a little bit more open ended.
MundoVibe: I was just thinking about this, the sound in and of itself, without lyrics is very conveying of politics or messages without even being literal.
Kode9: I’m interested if you find that.
MundoVibe: I haven’t read your book “Sonic Warfare” but I remember when it came out and was reading more about it. And you’re someone who’s investigating how sound can effect people. What’s the driving thought there?
Kode9: I suppose it’s just exploring that idea. With music we assume that it’s there to give us pleasure, to help us escape or to sooth us. I came across all of these examples of where music is used to torture or specific frequencies or sound used in crowd control or used to make people irritated, make them feel uneasy and so on. And I’m not trying to do that in my music but I certainly have an interest in things like this and this idea of curdling. Curdled sound, and that ambiguity of something it’s not noise but something’s not right about the melody or something’s off tune. It’s two sounds set together uneasily and I’m interested in how that can jar with people and that can make people recoil or it can produce enjoyment. That ambiguity of sound is always fascinating.
MundoVibe: I was thinking about genres of music and how we’ve gotten to micro-genres. Going back to Jamaica, you know the dancehall thing for a while was being pushed as the next big thing but never quite got there. Now it’s gone into its own world. And I wonder if some degree that’s what you have to do with your music to avoid it just being co-opted and turned into drum’n’bass and commercials and all of that crap. How do you feel about that?
Kode9: I suppose my opinion on that is I’m not hostile to commercialization in itself. It just so happens that when it happens the music gets worse. I don’t know if you know the Burial music, that for me was a really heartening example of how music can become popular and cross over and become mainstream almost. But not compromise musically and not compromise in terms of PR, not front up the music by being a face. And I thought that was really inspiring that something can become popular without getting rammed down people’s throats. So that’s how I feel about it — as long as you stay strong about the music and stay true to what you like then everything else is peripheral.
MundoVibe: Do you see your music as being specific to place and time and culture.
Kode9: It’s an unusual sound for London but it’s still a London-based sound that we have. It’s not typical of dubstep, it’s not typical of the kind of house that comes out of London but for me anyway I think there’s something very British about our sound. And that’s important to me because most of music I’ve DJ’d with is mostly from London. It’s always dominated the music I DJ with.
MundoVibe: So, you probably grew up in that culture with the music. Was going out to underground venues and, say, pirate radio an influence?
Kode9: I didn’t grow up with it, I moved into that because I grew up in Scotland in Glasgow and moved to London 10 years ago. I’d spent some time there before but the last 10 years I’ve been immersed in that world. And that just coincides with when I’ve been releasing music and I started DJing not just as a hobby but seriously because I’ve been Djing for twenty-some years. So, yeah, moving to London and pirate radio culture, that whole culture is very strong.
MV: Did you start Hyperdub before anything else?
Kode9: Hyperdub started as a web magazine in 2001 and we ran it for two or three years. It was really in-depth interviews with London-based artists. I did that pretty much on my own for a few years and ran out of momentum and drive to keep it going. So, a friend of mine suggested I release some of my music and suddenly the magazine became a record label. Initially to release my own stuff and then I discovered Burial’s stuff and it started to spread.
MV: It’s the beauty technology today is that it’s virus-like how something can just spread.
Kode9: And from nothing.
MV: Are you astounded when you’re half way around the globe and people are embracing your music?
Kode9: It always amazes me the places to which our music has reached. I’ve played in China a few times but last year I played in the Philippines and that was genuinely surreal. It was really amazing and heartening to connect with them.
MV: I can imagine. As cliched as it is it’s the universality of music.
Kode9: Yes.
MV: Do you handle your distribution?
Kode9: We have a distributor who handles all of our stuff. I’m not a big fan of the business side of running a label, the more we can outsource stuff the better. There’s cheaper ways of doing it but as long as it’s not a stress for me than that’s how we do it.
MV: I just want to get back into the process of how you make your music. You explained the theme of “Black Sun” and, of course, you have Spaceape. Do you sit down and sort of brain storm ideas or…
Kode9: Yeah, I’ll make some instrumental tracks to him, he’ll come to me with lyrics. We’ll try the lyrics on one track, live with that for a few weeks. Then usually what happens is that I’ll put his lyrics on another track that I’ve got and everything tends to shift around for a while. I always change my mind about drum patterns where I change them and just get rid of the drums. There’s a lot of that with this album, the drum pattern’s constantly shifting on the tracks, the bassline’s constantly shifting. It only crystallized in the second half of last year, that’s when the album started to properly take shape.
MV: You have so much at your disposal but you have to put it all together. It’s got to be challenging.
Kode9: We’ve got too much choice. Really, the hardest thing sometimes is trying to remember what you like, trying to get back to a very basic feeling. And obviously what you’re constantly trying to do is iron out things that don’t make you feel good. That’s the uneasy listening thing. When you’re making an album you’re listening to the same music over and over again and occasionally some of the elements will just make you feel uneasy, it’s like that thing repeats too many times or it’s just there too long. So, you’re constantly just nit picking. Usually what you end up doing is subtracting, paring things down until what’s left is lean and mean and there’s no flab on it. All that’s there is what’s needed. That’s a hard process.
MV: So, how do you feel five years on with this release?
Kode9: From the first album? I suppose we’re kind of happy with what we’ve done. It is what it is, we’re happy to have escaped the process because it’s very intense. And we just hope people enjoy it, get something from it.
MV: Is there pressure from your fanbase that you feel?
Kode9: To be honest with you, when we work together when I do stuff with Spaceape we know who our fans are.
“Luv ‘n Liv (Ming vs. Subatomic Sound System)”
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